IndyCar oil: Edge supercar 0w-20 HP, HTHS=2.65

[lubricatosaurus]

The Product Tech Sheet is only a couple of weeks old.
Startling they aren't using the 0w-40s of the world.
Small HTHS!
Is this the first time IndyCars will be using 0w-20?
http://msdspds.castrol.com/bpglis/FusionPDS.nsf/Files/818A3CC62AF7707E80257F08002FB096/$File/BPXE-A4LD8K.pdf

 

[Garak]

It would be interesting to know if this is a qualifying lube or something they use for the race, too. We do know for certain that 0w-40s were used there as recently as last season.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Secrecy hides those facts. They used 0w-40 a few years ago, yet does anybody know whats happening in the sport in the last year or two?

If this thin 0w-20 is used, its pretty amazing, given the rule:
"Life span: The league has stringent regulations on engine use. Drivers can go through a maximum of four engines per year. They can be replaced at 2,500 miles or if they will exceed 2,850 by the end of a race." Thats running around 10,000 rpm average for those miles, just incredible rod bearing stress. You'd think a 40 with hths>3.5 would be needed to go the distance.

Something else jumps out at me: Notice Castrol says this is specifically for the Honda IndyCar engine. Given that Honda engines have about 30 less (rumored) HP than the Chevy-Ilmor engines*, it could be this lower-viscosity oil is an attempt to get 2% more power out of the Honda engines to close the gap with Chevy. Of course, durability is important, so its amazing if they are racing with the 0w-20 and depending on boundary lubrication additives to survive it.

*"I definitely think come this Sunday (2015 Indy500), Chevrolet has a huge advantage," said Graham Rahal of Honda-backed Rahal Letterman Lanigan Racing. "I think they appear to have more horsepower. When everybody is lifting in the corners and they go back to power, they always gap you no matter what. That's a hard thing to compete with."

Aero kit discussions are important too, yet a separate issue.

http://www.foxsports.com/motor/story/ind...of-sport-060615
https://oilpressure.wordpress.com/2015/09/11/hondas-problem-engine-or-aero-kit/
http://www.racer.com/indycar/item/117426-indycar-honda-and-its-teams-roll-with-the-punches
http://www.indycar.com/News/2015/01/1-7-Review-of-engine-regulations

reference IndyCar oil tech rule: Can use only lubricating oil that is readily available to the general public through retail methods.

 

[Garak]

I know what their rule is, but it would be interesting to know what everyone is using. In F1, it's all bespoke lubes, so there, we have no clue at all.

 

[billt460]

I read once that NASCAR qualifies with 0W-20 on the Super Speedways. But for the race they go with much thicker oil like 50W. Supposedly the thinner oil gives them a few extra MPH for a lap or 2, but would never keep an engine together for 500 miles at 200 MPH.

 

[sunruh]

i had read they even used 0w0
and that all made sense up until the impound rule.
with impound and using the same motor for the race as you do in qualifing means you cant risk the reliability at lap 490.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: sunruh
i had read they even used 0w0
and that all made sense up until the impound rule.
with impound and using the same motor for the race as you do in qualifying means you cant risk the reliability at lap 490.


I didn't know that. It makes sense. Make everyone run the same oil for qualifying as the race. It's all the same for everyone, and the engines will all last longer.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Great observations. thanks!
So with Impound Rules, they can't let anybody touch the engine between qualifying and the race. I can see how you could use a thin oil in qualifying in some race types (no impound) since low HTHS does pick up one or two percent power immediately, unless rev limits are in place.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: billt460
I read once that NASCAR qualifies with 0W-20 on the Super Speedways. But for the race they go with much thicker oil like 50W. Supposedly the thinner oil gives them a few extra MPH for a lap or 2, but would never keep an engine together for 500 miles at 200 MPH.
It is as if this new Castrol 0w-20 here says you can do an Indy500 and survive. If the Honda engines are doing it and the more powerful Chevy-Ilmors are not using that HTHS, then Honda looks better this season, finally!!! (Assuming other factors don't ruin it, like aero kit differences, etc.)

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I know what their rule is, but it would be interesting to know what everyone is using. In F1, it's all bespoke lubes, so there, we have no clue at all.


I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...


So they flow better when they're cold? That goes against everything that is currently available??

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...


So they flow better when they're cold? That goes against everything that is currently available??

 

[Shannow]

I never said that I believed the posit...

 

[Shannow]

Found it...

Quote:
In fact in F1 racing, motor oil (likely a polymer additive) has been developed that actually stops and even reverses viscosity loss at a certain high temperature.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Found it...

Quote:
In fact in F1 racing, motor oil (likely a polymer additive) has been developed that actually stops and even reverses viscosity loss at a certain high temperature.


Link please!

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...

I think that it would be exceedingly difficult to find out the truth. I doubt that anyone in any of the factories or pits, particularly oil company representatives, would be willing to answer many questions, much less provide a sample.

I don't doubt that the oil companies put a huge amount of effort into F1 teams' fuels and oils. In fact, this upcoming season, Scuderia Toro Rosso has stated it will have to get any engine performance tweaks from fuel tweaks within the regulations and mapping, thanks to them using a locked, older specification engine.

 

[Pontual]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: Garak
I know what their rule is, but it would be interesting to know what everyone is using. In F1, it's all bespoke lubes, so there, we have no clue at all.


I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...


Wow, thats not Non-Newtonian, thats Anti-Newtonian!!

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: Shannow
I've seen it posited that the F1 lubes thicken with heat...

I think that it would be exceedingly difficult to find out the truth. I doubt that anyone in any of the factories or pits, ....


Sounds like the concept of a viscosity index improver polymer coil being taken to an extreme. Sure its coiled up when cold, and uncoiled as more kinetic Brownian Motion occurs, but the molecular shape would need to be incredibly flat and elongated when hot for viscosity to remain constant as the temperature goes up.

Then the molecule has to stay intact under F1 engine shear stresses and temperatures. Just too amazing to imagine. A polymer chemist might be able to visualize it.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Pontual
Wow, thats not Non-Newtonian, thats Anti-Newtonian!!

If this new Castrol Edge Supercar 0w-20 does use the magic Anti-Newtonian polymers, and we believe in the Loch Ness monster, then it might explain how a 12,000 RPM IndyCar engine rod bearings survive with hths=2.65, since maybe hths goes up if measured at 200 degC. Too fantastic.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: billt460
Link please!


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3930048/Re:_ULV_Oils_-_How_to_Contribu#Post3930048