Does it make sense to get E0 fuel in the winter?

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Asking because I may not understand "winter blend" correctly. My knowledge, to date, is that refineries will switch to a winter formula around this time of year, and that formula includes lower boiling point hydrocarbons as well as oxygenators.

Since I can still readily purchase E0 gasoline in my state, then the winter blend of it may have ethanol added in order to make it work during cold weather months. The problem is going to be knowing if ethanol is the oxygenator added in my area. Seems like an easy business decision for the suppliers, though, since ethanol is readily available for mixing.

Right now the price differential, per gallon, is around +$0.25 for E0 over E10.

So in summary, I guess my question can be boiled down to:

If winter blend E0 is actually E5, is it still worth buying over E10?

(and a bonus question - Does winter blend E10 remain at most 10% ethanol or do they have to add even more ethanol in order to make it winter compatible, thus making it E12 or E15?)
 
IMO you should run a tank of E10 now, before winter gets too bad, to suck any water out of your tank.

With petro-gas so cheap, I wonder if your E10 is "up to 10%" or "must be 10%".
 
IN WI, if gas is advertised as E0, it's E0. If it says "up to E10" it's up to but not over E10. Winter blend does not include ethanol. If you are concerned about water, you need to use heet or similar. Ethanol fuels don't need heet added.
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
IMO you should run a tank of E10 now, before winter gets too bad, to suck any water out of your tank.

With petro-gas so cheap, I wonder if your E10 is "up to 10%" or "must be 10%".
IIRC, with less that 0.5% by volume, the alcohol will drop out of the fuel mix and sit on the bottom of the tank. At least it will be a nice, very corrosive alcohol and water mix down there
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Originally Posted By: eljefino
IMO you should run a tank of E10 now, before winter gets too bad, to suck any water out of your tank.

With petro-gas so cheap, I wonder if your E10 is "up to 10%" or "must be 10%".
IIRC, with less that 0.5% by volume, the alcohol will drop out of the fuel mix and sit on the bottom of the tank. At least it will be a nice, very corrosive alcohol and water mix down there
smile.gif



Its called phase separation. Having 2-3 tablespoons of water per gallon will cause it. But in a 20 gallon tanks thats quite a bit of water. It would be more than a 20oz bottle of water per tank.
 
The water + ethanol issue is mostly a concern when adding ethanol for the first time to a tank that may have some water in the bottom, or for long-term storage with partly full tanks that can accumulate a lot of condensation.

If E10 is used regularly, you'll never see enough water buildup to cause separation outside of extraordinary circumstances. It basically just acts like old-school drygas and sucks up the little bits of water as they happen.

Even in the boat, we've never had a separation issue after 10 years of E10. The tanks (2x 210 gallon) are filled to the top right before winter storage, usually in October (to minimize condensation and maximize the amount of fuel to absorb the moisture that does get in). They'll get filled again in June or July once enough fuel has been burned off, so the fuel sits in there for 8 - 9 months with no issue.
 
Unless you haven't bought gas in a few months, you've already got winter belnd fuels in your tank. In this region, the change starts as of September 15, and is fully winter fuel by November 1, and stays that way until February 1.

While in general not a fan of the E10 mandates, it has made fuel line freezing problems a thing of the past... And E10 can be a max of E10, no more...
 
Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
Hadn't heard of more ethanol in winter blends-thought it was more rapidly evaporating/lower vapor pressure components such as isobutane?



This. The alleged goal of "winter blend" gasoline is to decrease unburned hydrocarbon emissions by raising the vapor pressure of fuel so that it vaporizes faster and burns more completely. But truth be told, in modern fuel injected engines it certainly doesn't help driveability and just increases raw vapor emissions from the gas tank and fuel storage tanks, increasing ground-level ozone. On a hot day in winter, it can even cause vapor locking on fuel injected vehicles. The EPA started the mandate in the carbureted era when it made sense (a little bit, anyway). But I think now its become a way for the refiners to dispose of their unprofitable lighter fractions, so they don't want to let it go.

Ethanol vapor pressure is actually lower than gasoline, IIRC, so they definitely do not add more in winter since it would do the opposite of raising the vapor pressure. That said, winter is the time its most beneficial- keeps water from accumulating in the fuel system.
 
I will say that winter blend does make for quicker starting in cold weather in the Jeep, even with port injection. But once it's running, you can't tell.
 
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I will say that winter blend does make for quicker starting in cold weather in the Jeep, even with port injection. But once it's running, you can't tell.


You mean, other than the mpg loss?
wink.gif
I know I can tell when the switch occurs.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Originally Posted By: rslifkin
I will say that winter blend does make for quicker starting in cold weather in the Jeep, even with port injection. But once it's running, you can't tell.


You mean, other than the mpg loss?
wink.gif
I know I can tell when the switch occurs.


I'm pretty sure the mpg loss is within the measuring error on this thing (or the reduced A/C use makes up for it). Honestly, some of my best mpg runs have been mid-winter road trips. Normally I do lose some to the colder weather and such, but with how mild this winter has been so far, I haven't noticed a difference.
 
In my TDi, my best mpg was always in winter. Partly because I'd baby the snow tires more, but I honestly think it really liked the cold dense air more.

In my truck though it drops like a rock. I need to check but I'm pretty sure it was 5% overnight, then another 5% once I put on snow tires. 21-22 this summer, now 18-19.
 
I only have one word of caution. We have one brand up here that advertises its premium as E0. Its winter fuel happens to include a splash of methanol, which is not advertised. I would hope they're the only people doing it, but that might be a little naive.
 
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