Most pre war cars didn't have filters. Typically you changed the oil ever 500 miles and they called for a kerosene flush once in awhile.
Oil was also none detergent.
Oil was also none detergent.
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What If, you did not have an oil filter.
- Thread starter CourierDriver
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Originally Posted By: totegoat
I sure don't miss the oil bath air filters.
+1.
I sure don't miss the oil bath air filters.
+1.
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
GM puts tiny filters in big engines. Contrast that to what Ford does with the almost-universal Fl820S big animal. You'd think GM engines spend more time in bypass or just put up with the pressure drop, and have shorter lives.
Or more likely it just makes no difference whatsoever.
GM puts tiny filters in big engines. Contrast that to what Ford does with the almost-universal Fl820S big animal. You'd think GM engines spend more time in bypass or just put up with the pressure drop, and have shorter lives.
Or more likely it just makes no difference whatsoever.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..
In my deliveries for Napa, I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho
The "rinky dink" drop-in filter on my 2.2 has ~180 square inches of media. That's more than the last FL400 I cut open and even more than the last PH8A dad used.
To answer the thread title's question: If I didn't have an oil filter, I'd install one, as I did with the Bug.
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..
In my deliveries for Napa, I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho
The "rinky dink" drop-in filter on my 2.2 has ~180 square inches of media. That's more than the last FL400 I cut open and even more than the last PH8A dad used.
To answer the thread title's question: If I didn't have an oil filter, I'd install one, as I did with the Bug.
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho
GM puts tiny filters in big engines. Contrast that to what Ford does with the almost-universal Fl820S big animal. You'd think GM engines spend more time in bypass or just put up with the pressure drop, and have shorter lives.
Almost-universal FL820s? I don't think so. I know it's on Modulars and Duratecs, but how many other engine families? I think the FL910s is probably the most common.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho
GM puts tiny filters in big engines. Contrast that to what Ford does with the almost-universal Fl820S big animal. You'd think GM engines spend more time in bypass or just put up with the pressure drop, and have shorter lives.
Almost-universal FL820s? I don't think so. I know it's on Modulars and Duratecs, but how many other engine families? I think the FL910s is probably the most common.
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I change the oil on the 1970 VW Beetle about every 2,000 miles each year. No filter, it has a screen.
If you have cut open filters, you have seen the metal particles, dirt, sludge, soot, and many other things caught by filters. And if you've done many particle counts on new oil, chances are you would filter it BEFORE putting it into an engine.
I have very efficient Donaldson Duramax hydraulic filters on my pneumatic oil filling system for oil changes at the shop.
I have very efficient Donaldson Duramax hydraulic filters on my pneumatic oil filling system for oil changes at the shop.
Lots of old engines had no filter and are still running around decades later but have probably been rebuilt more than once or twice.
Even when i started in this business 100K was considered EOL for most automotive engines with a filter, most MC and air cooled beetles that used screens didn't get close to that without a tear down.
Even when i started in this business 100K was considered EOL for most automotive engines with a filter, most MC and air cooled beetles that used screens didn't get close to that without a tear down.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Originally Posted By: totegoat
I sure don't miss the oil bath air filters.
My old 67 Beetle had one . We lived in Pensacola then and about every 6 months I would clean out the thing and there would be about 1/2 in of sand in the oil cleaner,,guess it worked .
I sure don't miss the oil bath air filters.
My old 67 Beetle had one . We lived in Pensacola then and about every 6 months I would clean out the thing and there would be about 1/2 in of sand in the oil cleaner,,guess it worked .
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..
No filter required read this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215731&page=1
Having said that a filter is good insurance for any small metal particles that may fall into the oil. No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1
The engines of the 60s were sludged not because they had no filter but from the primitive oils of that period.
Its been a while since I read that first thread you linked but my takeaway was lots of speculation and no proof. Without teardown to measure wear its a waste of time. But if I missed the teardown with/without oil filter please point to it.
UOA showed no increased wear metals with no oil filter
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..
No filter required read this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215731&page=1
Having said that a filter is good insurance for any small metal particles that may fall into the oil. No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1
The engines of the 60s were sludged not because they had no filter but from the primitive oils of that period.
Its been a while since I read that first thread you linked but my takeaway was lots of speculation and no proof. Without teardown to measure wear its a waste of time. But if I missed the teardown with/without oil filter please point to it.
UOA showed no increased wear metals with no oil filter
Originally Posted By: Trav
Lots of old engines had no filter and are still running around decades later but have probably been rebuilt more than once or twice.
Even when i started in this business 100K was considered EOL for most automotive engines with a filter, most MC and air cooled beetles that used screens didn't get close to that without a tear down.
To compare an air cooled engine to a liquid cooled engine is not a valid comparison. In cooler climates the AC VWs would go 100K
Lots of old engines had no filter and are still running around decades later but have probably been rebuilt more than once or twice.
Even when i started in this business 100K was considered EOL for most automotive engines with a filter, most MC and air cooled beetles that used screens didn't get close to that without a tear down.
To compare an air cooled engine to a liquid cooled engine is not a valid comparison. In cooler climates the AC VWs would go 100K
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
That data was before Tearolators hit the market. Most oil filters aren't very flow restrictive, but people just think they are because they rarely see actual test data like this from a place that has the right test equipment.
And BTW, that old thread of the flow tests done in the basement way back was pretty crude, and thinking it doesn't really have much merit.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
That data was before Tearolators hit the market. Most oil filters aren't very flow restrictive, but people just think they are because they rarely see actual test data like this from a place that has the right test equipment.
And BTW, that old thread of the flow tests done in the basement way back was pretty crude, and thinking it doesn't really have much merit.
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
At least spell it correctly.
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
At least spell it correctly.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
At least spell it correctly.
Really Professor? One typo and I get a A-? Should I go back and proof all your posts?
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.
Not really. And full synthetic oil filters (which can be high efficiency) will flow even better.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=116457&Number=1619451
Your data is from Perolator, the company who's filters tear open.
At least spell it correctly.
Really Professor? One typo and I get a A-? Should I go back and proof all your posts?
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Well, if the auto makers could remove it they would - all to save a buck. They would even tout it as a feature, maybe even environmentally friendly. There are many reasons to have an oil filter not related to the common reason we think about. Reasons such as - particles in fresh oil, break in debris, junk that could accidentally get in when checking/changing oil, etc.
Let's complete that logic loop and go straight to the bottom line: primarily the engine makers put in an oil filter to catch their own normal waste detritus from the manufacturing and assembly chain. Secondarily, for the reasons above.
Well, if the auto makers could remove it they would - all to save a buck. They would even tout it as a feature, maybe even environmentally friendly. There are many reasons to have an oil filter not related to the common reason we think about. Reasons such as - particles in fresh oil, break in debris, junk that could accidentally get in when checking/changing oil, etc.
Let's complete that logic loop and go straight to the bottom line: primarily the engine makers put in an oil filter to catch their own normal waste detritus from the manufacturing and assembly chain. Secondarily, for the reasons above.
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