What If, you did not have an oil filter.

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It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..

In my deliveries for Napa, I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho
 
As late as the early to mid 1950's some cars came without oil filters.
It was common (at least in this area) to change oil every 1000 to 2000 miles.
Saw quite a few sludged up motors back then.
 
Chevrolet small blocks started off with no oil filter,and the optional was copper tubing plumbed in,because there was no filter boss on the block.Chevrolets went well into the 1960s with drop in filter inserts....such was the cheapness of "everybodys" favorite brand. (All the while every Chrysler product ever made came with an oil filter).
 
Back in the bad old days, was it common to find sludged up filters *when using proper change intervals*?

I've always wondered what the filter was catching, as I've never seen one with stuff in it. Sure, it could be microscopic, but if so, I'd think it'd take a few hundred thousand miles for that microscopic stuff to build up on an engine run with no filter but decent oil change intervals.
 
Just to chime in.....a friend's Dad had a 1952 Willys Overland with a 6 cyl. engine and its oil filter was external as well.

Regarding "everybody's favorite brand" having external filters (sarcasm directed towards Chevy no doubt) and Chrysler (being cast again as the "engineering company", I suppose). I gotta say that all the car company's have an incredibly mixed record of success and failures. Alas, the quantum of needless "toy options", cheap construction and over-powering by all outweighs any record of innovation, reliability and durability.

Who'd want anything made by FCA or even GM anymore? Kira
 
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
As late as the early to mid 1950's some cars came without oil filters.
It was common (at least in this area) to change oil every 1000 to 2000 miles.
Saw quite a few sludged up motors back then.


I don't think the filter (or lack of one) had much to do with sludging back then.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
In my deliveries for Napa, I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho


I don't see how your perception of size means anything. I've run both my Toyotas and my Honda on the factory spec filters and none are worn out yet. The one for my ECHO is tiny (and is the same one used on my standby generator). Much less than 4" long.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
Back in the bad old days, was it common to find sludged up filters *when using proper change intervals*?



Yes, it was, but I think there were other things contributing to that problem. A lot of early vehicles that had the oil filter "option", had a bypass filter, where only about 1%-5% of the oil would go through the filter for each pass. The engine thermostat was set at 155-160 instead of the now common 195. The PCV system was a road draft tube instead of having the blowby run back through the crankcase. And, of course, oil wasn't as good as it is now.
All of this contributed to sludge, even if the owner did 2K service intervals.
 
Originally Posted By: Kira
Just to chime in.....a friend's Dad had a 1952 Willys Overland with a 6 cyl. engine and its oil filter was external as well.

Regarding "everybody's favorite brand" having external filters (sarcasm directed towards Chevy no doubt) and Chrysler (being cast again as the "engineering company", I suppose). I gotta say that all the car company's have an incredibly mixed record of success and failures. Alas, the quantum of needless "toy options", cheap construction and over-powering by all outweighs any record of innovation, reliability and durability.

Who'd want anything made by FCA or even GM anymore? Kira


Enterprise and Avis, thats who.
 
The 1954 Plymouth Savoy, Plaza came with the option to add a filter. The Belvedere was standard on the flat head L6.
 
Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Charlie1935
As late as the early to mid 1950's some cars came without oil filters.
It was common (at least in this area) to change oil every 1000 to 2000 miles.
Saw quite a few sludged up motors back then.


I don't think the filter (or lack of one) had much to do with sludging back then.



Back in the 50's I saw a few that had so much crud in them that after removing the drain plug we had to stick a screwdriver in the drain hole to get the oil start draining.
I will sat that those cars weren't serviced regularly though.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..

In my deliveries for Napa, I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho

Not exactly. There was a wire mesh screen filter in old VW, maybe wasnt as good as a spin on, but it was a filter.
 
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: supton
Back in the bad old days, was it common to find sludged up filters *when using proper change intervals*?



Yes, it was, but I think there were other things contributing to that problem. A lot of early vehicles that had the oil filter "option", had a bypass filter, where only about 1%-5% of the oil would go through the filter for each pass. The engine thermostat was set at 155-160 instead of the now common 195. The PCV system was a road draft tube instead of having the blowby run back through the crankcase. And, of course, oil wasn't as good as it is now.
All of this contributed to sludge, even if the owner did 2K service intervals.


Sludge is not caused by lack of filter.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
I deliver many oil filters and some, not all, are extremely small, mabye 2 inches wide and 4 inches long drop in filters. They look rinky dink to me to put something that cheap looking on an engine. I guess they work, but really, they are cheap looking drop ins. imho

GM puts tiny filters in big engines. Contrast that to what Ford does with the almost-universal Fl820S big animal. You'd think GM engines spend more time in bypass or just put up with the pressure drop, and have shorter lives.
 
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..


No filter required read this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215731&page=1

Having said that a filter is good insurance for any small metal particles that may fall into the oil. No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1

The engines of the 60s were sludged not because they had no filter but from the primitive oils of that period.
 
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Ok, then what's the point of the filter? If wear metals are too small to be caught, and if oils changed on time don't sludge... then is the filter there as a feel-good measure?
 
My 1971 Cessna Cardinal 177RG with Lycoming IO-360 engine made it 40 years without an overhaul, and without an oil filter. Looking through the log books, the oil change intervals were often quite a bit longer than I'd like. (once per year)

The engine lasted about 1700 hours before camshaft failure. Not sure a filter would have helped that one bit. As it's corrosion that causes cam failure.
 
Why not just a screen on the oil pickup tube?


Why is a filter so important? The only engine failure we had caused by oil system, was gasket material plugged up oil pump screen,engine starved for oil.....
 
Well, if the auto makers could remove it they would - all to save a buck. They would even tout it as a feature, maybe even environmentally friendly. There are many reasons to have an oil filter not related to the common reason we think about. Reasons such as - particles in fresh oil, break in debris, junk that could accidentally get in when checking/changing oil, etc.
 
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
It is possible to run an engine without oil filters, old VW's did not have them, but that was yesterday..


No filter required read this thread: http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=215731&page=1

Having said that a filter is good insurance for any small metal particles that may fall into the oil. No need for high efficiency filters as they restrict oil flow.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=315003&page=1

The engines of the 60s were sludged not because they had no filter but from the primitive oils of that period.


Its been a while since I read that first thread you linked but my takeaway was lots of speculation and no proof. Without teardown to measure wear its a waste of time. But if I missed the teardown with/without oil filter please point to it.
 
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