I feel the future of Nascar and F1 is....

[Vern_in_IL]

1. Make the races count. No stupid "Championship point system"

2. Make the rules simple, and allow more choices for teams. Different tech choices, and if everyone gets lapped, so be it!!

3. Ban muti-car teams on same track. Ban muti-car owners on same track.(Team Penske)

4. No bull S. No "WWE" off the track, strict enforcement. (no "Jeff Gordon raceways," no throwing helmets/fist at other drivers in the garage or pits)

If these things can be dealt with, racing will be relevant for quite some time... I however see the opposite happening. More teams being owned by the same company, more complex rules to make entry ridiculously expensive, and more "WWE" style off track entertainment.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Nascar is turning to (or already is) just another corporation.

 

[Tdbo]

I'll add my two gripes:

1. Drivers should be allowed to run the cup race or the xfinity race, not both. Sick of the cup guys running cars Saturday as a shake down cruise. Use the Xfinity race as a development league for younger drivers.

2. Make stock cars stock again. Instead of race cars with a bunch of dopey stickers on them, have them race what is on the showroom floor (with necessary safety equipment.) May slow down speed some but it will improve the product on the showroom floor and inject a dimension of race strategy in driving to the equipment, like it was back in the day.

 

[BigD1]

It's all been down hill since the closing of North Wilkesboro. Put the points back the way they were. Nascar champion this year missed 11 races, but ended up champion... Nascar championship is a complete joke now.

 

[faltic]

Originally Posted By: Tdbo
I'll add my two gripes:

1. Drivers should be allowed to run the cup race or the xfinity race, not both. Sick of the cup guys running cars Saturday as a shake down cruise. Use the Xfinity race as a development league for younger drivers.

2. Make stock cars stock again. Instead of race cars with a bunch of dopey stickers on them, have them race what is on the showroom floor (with necessary safety equipment.) May slow down speed some but it will improve the product on the showroom floor and inject a dimension of race strategy in driving to the equipment, like it was back in the day.


+1

 

[Garak]

I'm not sure how NASCAR points work at all. It seems confusing, and this is coming from an F1 fan. I have no concern with the way F1 points work. The races clearly count. As for simplifying rules, I don't think there is much objection to that. In F1, cars get lapped all the time, so there does have to be some balance had between costs and performance. If you open the rules up for everything except safety, well, you'll have three teams competing, if you're lucky, and those three teams are a boardroom's decision away from pulling out.

NASCAR is blessed with a fairly large field. F1 isn't, so multi-car teams aren't going away unless costs come significantly down, and I can't see Sir Frank or Ron Dennis wanting to cut their operations down to one car. That wouldn't help sponsorship dollars and a lot of people would be finding new jobs.

WWE type behaviour isn't tolerated in F1 at all. There have been moments in the past, but that's been essentially dealt with. Speaking of which, Lewis is getting a little whiny lately. A few drive through penalties for innocuous infractions at the beginning of next season might help him focus on the task at hand. It worked for him before, around the 2011 season, I believe it was.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: BigD1
......Put the points back the way they were. Nascar champion this year missed 11 races, but ended up champion... Nascar championship is a complete joke now.


This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

The way they run now is confusing, and point blank stupid. As was mentioned. How can you miss 11 races, and still be champion? It's completely ridiculous.

 

[Garak]

That is pretty strange, isn't it. You know what happens in F1 when a driver has 11 no points finishes. You don't even want half that many.

 

[crit]

My biggest gripe with F1 is that the penalty system makes no sense.

How is it that McLaren gets penalized more for having some obsolete Ferrari documents than Renault who had crash gate? Especially when you see that most of the involved players at McLaren are now elsewhere and not suffering from the penalty.

Also how is it that Nelson Piquet Jr. Isn't banned from all motorsports?

NASCAR is a joke, has been for decades but purpose built race cars are not the problem. Lack of driving talent, officiating that intentionally bunches up the field and too few road courses are the problem. The points system is the cherry on top.

To me, rally racing, GRC, endurance racing and amateur SCCA stuff are more interesting than NASCAR. Formula One is still interesting for the technical superiority and best drivers on the planet but the [censored] almost outweighs that.

My suggestion is turn off the TV and autocross your car if you can afford it.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: crit
How is it that McLaren gets penalized more for having some obsolete Ferrari documents than Renault who had crash gate?


That reminds me. I thought both Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore were banned FOR LIFE from Formula 1, for that little stunt Nelson Piquet Jr. ratted both of them out for masterminding? Now I see Symonds alive and well, warming a stool with his a$$ in the pits??? What gives???

 

[gofast182]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I'm not sure how NASCAR points work at all. It seems confusing, and this is coming from an F1 fan. I have no concern with the way F1 points work. The races clearly count. As for simplifying rules, I don't think there is much objection to that. In F1, cars get lapped all the time, so there does have to be some balance had between costs and performance. If you open the rules up for everything except safety, well, you'll have three teams competing, if you're lucky, and those three teams are a boardroom's decision away from pulling out.

NASCAR is blessed with a fairly large field. F1 isn't, so multi-car teams aren't going away unless costs come significantly down, and I can't see Sir Frank or Ron Dennis wanting to cut their operations down to one car. That wouldn't help sponsorship dollars and a lot of people would be finding new jobs.

WWE type behaviour isn't tolerated in F1 at all. There have been moments in the past, but that's been essentially dealt with. Speaking of which, Lewis is getting a little whiny lately. A few drive through penalties for innocuous infractions at the beginning of next season might help him focus on the task at hand. It worked for him before, around the 2011 season, I believe it was.

F1 certainly has its issues but largely you're right and the OP seems to be talking more about NASCAR even though F1 is in the title.

I cannot bring myself to watch NASCAR unless someone I trust tells me to tune in for something that's happening. It's like a male soap opera between the drivers, ovals are boring, the tech. is rather old, and the only thing "stock" about those cars is the font of the logo.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: Garak
That is pretty strange, isn't it. You know what happens in F1 when a driver has 11 no points finishes. You don't even want half that many.


30 years ago, the F1 points system didn't count all the races. I don't recall the exact number, but only the top 10 (give or take) finishes that a driver had would count toward the championship. Late in the season, a driver would be calculating that he could drop that 4th place finish if only he could get 3rd or better in the next race. Everybody thought that was pretty hokey.

 

[A_Harman]

Originally Posted By: crit

My suggestion is turn off the TV and autocross your car if you can afford it.


I'm kind of screwed there. I record races on my DVR while I'm out running track days. Then I watch the races when I get home. At least I save time by FF'ing through the commercials.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: crit
My biggest gripe with F1 is that the penalty system makes no sense.

The big penalties make no sense. The little stuff is a lot more understandable, with "a lot" really being only a relative turn. Why isn't Piquet Jr. banned? That's a good question. Why does Pastor still have a drive? Name recognition and sponsorship can outweigh a lot of other things.

And I do like the comments on NASCAR here. I'd pay real dollars to watch races between real cars (with safety modifications as needed, and perhaps some durability modifications, appropriate tires) on real circuits and road circuits. I'm not particularly interested in seeing fake bodies designed to superficially resemble real cars. What's the point? Put a fake '57 Chev body out there, or a giant hot dog. What's the difference?

Originally Posted By: billt460
That reminds me. I thought both Pat Symonds and Flavio Briatore were banned FOR LIFE from Formula 1, for that little stunt Nelson Piquet Jr. ratted both of them out for masterminding? Now I see Symonds alive and well, warming a stool with his a$$ in the pits??? What gives???

Briatore was banned indefinitely, but got that overturned. Symonds got a five year ban, and got it overturned, too, and then made some arrangements where he could be a consultant for a time, and then get a "real job" in F1, which he has now with Williams.

Originally Posted By: A_Harman
30 years ago, the F1 points system didn't count all the races.

Yes, those championship and non-championship races were a little confusing.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Garak
Why isn't Piquet Jr. banned? That's a good question.


Piquet Jr. wasn't worth anything when he was driving in F-1. He was nowhere near the caliber of driver Alonso was, (or is), and was never worthy of that car. The same with Scott Speed. Red Bull invested a fortune in his career, and it went absolutely nowhere. He was a good looking American with a catchy last name, and not much else. That is why both of them washed out of Formula 1, as well as a few other venues. And they both presently reside in Red Bull Global Rally Cross, driving sub compacts around tracks the size of baseball diamonds.

http://www.redbullglobalrallycross.com/drivers-teams/

Piquet Jr. was given orders to crash his car in Singapore, in order to bolster Alonso's position. It was wrong, but he was between a rock and a hard place.... So he did it. After he was let go, he finked on both Symonds and Briatore, and they were both subsequently banned.

 

[crit]

Yes but why would any sanctioning body license a racer who had intentionally crashed in any race beside a demolition derby?

About stock cars not being stock, I'm sure you really don't want to see a Taurus race a Camry. We aren't going to see a return of the rwd family sedan and fwd cars racing on an oval would require some really masochistic drivers. Be glad that stock cars are purpose built.

It was cool when sedans were legitimate high performance machines and budgets didn't allow teams to buy their way in to the winner's circle. That is not the world today.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: crit
About stock cars not being stock, I'm sure you really don't want to see a Taurus race a Camry. We aren't going to see a return of the rwd family sedan and fwd cars racing on an oval would require some really masochistic drivers. Be glad that stock cars are purpose built.

You know what I mean.

No, I don't really want to see a Taurus race a Camry. But there are other options, and what we have is a farce - a scam played out on the fans, with even the fans in on it.

What is the prohibition against something akin to a GT3 series with North American cars? There's no reason they can't do that.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: billt460
That is why both of them washed out of Formula 1, as well as a few other venues. And they both presently reside in Red Bull Global Rally Cross, driving sub compacts around tracks the size of baseball diamonds.

I think Piquet Jr. is also in Formula E.

 

[billt460]

Originally Posted By: Garak
I think Piquet Jr. is also in Formula E.


Correct. As is Nick Heidfeld, Jarno Truly, and a few other F-1 drivers that use it as a "senior tour".

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: crit
Yes but why would any sanctioning body license a racer who had intentionally crashed in any race beside a demolition derby?

About stock cars not being stock, I'm sure you really don't want to see a Taurus race a Camry. We aren't going to see a return of the rwd family sedan and fwd cars racing on an oval would require some really masochistic drivers. Be glad that stock cars are purpose built.

It was cool when sedans were legitimate high performance machines and budgets didn't allow teams to buy their way in to the winner's circle. That is not the world today.


I think that'd be a lot of fun. Seeing bone stock "regular" cars battling it out.