Filter For A Sludged Engine?

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As some of you know my '01 Grand Caravan has lots and lots of sludge under the Valve Covers. Out of curiosity, what filters would you recommend? I would prefer to run the oversize filter which is a Wix 51515. Which filter would you run?

I will be buying probably about 6. Not sure what to use though.

Baldwin B2 $?
Baldwin B34 $? (Regular Size)
Napa Pro Select 21515 $3.07, Not really impressed because combo valve.
Wix 51085 $6.35 (Regular Size)
Wix 51515 $5.91
Motorcraft FL1A $?
Quaker State $5
Fram Ultra XG8A $10.79 (Sale Price)
 
Originally Posted By: ZeeOSix
How often are you planning to change the oil?


Once every month or two with PYB. Oil is dark after 500KM. About 1000-2000KM OCI. Will be doing one filter change in between.
 
Since the filters will only be used a short time for engine clean-up, I'd go with something on the cheaper price side, like the WIX or Motorcraft. Using a full synthetic like an Ultra would be a waste.
 
Do you like combo valves that some cheaper filters use? If you know anything about them, educate me on them.
 
Given that you want to capture as much of the trash as possible, a Fram Ultra might not be a bad idea. Its extended usage is based on its filtering and dirt holding capacity. Sounds right up your alley from the way your last filter looked.
 
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Given that you want to capture as much of the trash as possible, a Fram Ultra might not be a bad idea. Its extended usage is based on its filtering and dirt holding capacity. Sounds right up your alley from the way your last filter looked.


There is also concern about the filters flow rate tho. As far as I know they have yet to releae the official numbers and compared to every other filter on the market when filtration improves flow rate decreases.

A ton of sludge clogging up the filter wouldn't help. However I'm not saying it's a bad idea or it couldn't work just seems like a legitimate concern.
 
^^^ Full synthetic media flows better and holds more crud, while still having high efficiency. That's why they are all rated for long change intervals.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
The Wix is a good price and a good filter, given your plan. Check Peavey Mart, if you have one nearby, for the Hastings. They tend to have some reasonable pricing, too.


We don't have those here. But the parts house I get my Baldwin / Wix from does have some Hastings stuff. I will ask when I call tomorrow morning. The closest Peavey is in Kamloops (4 hour drive)
 
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Originally Posted By: 3800Series
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp
Given that you want to capture as much of the trash as possible, a Fram Ultra might not be a bad idea. Its extended usage is based on its filtering and dirt holding capacity. Sounds right up your alley from the way your last filter looked.


There is also concern about the filters flow rate tho. As far as I know they have yet to releae the official numbers and compared to every other filter on the market when filtration improves flow rate decreases.

A ton of sludge clogging up the filter wouldn't help. However I'm not saying it's a bad idea or it couldn't work just seems like a legitimate concern.


The dirt holding capacity defines the fact that it's going to take more to close up a FU than it will a regular filter.

Syn medias have proven in all types of filters that syn holds more before flow decreases. They hold dirt at multiple depths instead of forming a tight surface barrier.
 
Baldwin is the same thing as Hastings, so as long as you're able to get one at a good price. How can you call yourself a Canadian farmer if you're four hours away from a Peavey Mart?
wink.gif
 
If your guy can get get the Casite CF1A, it's the cheaper Hastings FL1A, or the LF115 is a microglass blend. Make sure your thermostat isn't stuck open & you get the engine fully warmed up when you drive it, that'll help.
 
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Originally Posted By: Farmer
As some of you know my '01 Grand Caravan has lots and lots of sludge under the Valve Covers. Out of curiosity, what filters would you recommend? I would prefer to run the oversize filter which is a Wix 51515. Which filter would you run?

I will be buying probably about 6. Not sure what to use though.

Baldwin B2 $?
Baldwin B34 $? (Regular Size)
Napa Pro Select 21515 $3.07, Not really impressed because combo valve.
Wix 51085 $6.35 (Regular Size)
Wix 51515 $5.91
Motorcraft FL1A $?
Quaker State $5
Fram Ultra XG8A $10.79 (Sale Price)




I am curious about a few things ...

- what is it that lead to such a large accumulation of sludge? I am not greatly familiar with the engine in this van; does it have a propensity to sludge? Or, was maintenance neglected for a long time?
- if the vehicle had "normal" maintenance, then how is it you're going to get the sludge from it's settled position in the heads, into suspension and held there, and then into the filter? If it could not keep soot/insolubles low enough in a normal OCI plan, then what makes you think you can get it out now?
- if the vehicle was neglected, it's possible that "normal" maintenance might get the sludge out, but I doubt it. Sludge is VERY difficult to remove when the oil only washes over the surface of the muck and globule areas. It typically takes abrasion and physical friction contact to break sludge loose.

Think about washing your dirty hands. Cold water rinsed over your hands does little to remove the dirt. Warm water helps, but only so much. Adding soap helps, but again it can only do so much. But if you rub your hands vigorously against one another, the abrasive action of friction loosens the dirt, and the effect is multiplied when using warm water and soap (the warmth loosen bonds and the soap breaks bonds as well as holds dirt in suspension for the rinse phase).

So just putting in some PYB and hoping sludge is going to miraculously disapper is a bit of a pipe dream. If this engine is truly a victim of heavy sludge, there is little any oil or filter is going to do here.

But if you do expect that you can get the sludge to come out, then I suggestion this routine:
1) Use a Fram Ultra for the first O/FCI. Do about 3k miles. Cut it open and see just how much the media is blinded off, if any. This first O/FCI is ultra conservative on purpose, so that you can establish a worst-case baseline as you have ZERO idea of the initial effects of your plan. It is likely a waste of oil and filter to do this so quickly, but we err on the side of caution on the first O/FCI rather than send the filter into perpetual bypass.
2) After determining the potential for a sludge-removal-rate, you can then adjust your two variables (O/FCI duration and filter selection) to better match the probable rate of sludge removal. Perhaps 5k miles will suffice? Perhaps dropping to a TG rather than FU? I am not brand loyal in the filter idea, just using Fram as the example.
3) After each successive O/FCI, cut each filter open and see if you need to adjust the plan again.

I suspect you're not going to get much out, and so any normal oil/filter is only going to achieve so much. Premium products won't gain you any discernible difference worth the expense.

But, this is what BITOG is really supposed to be about. You come up with a theory, run the experiments, post the results. Nothing wrong with asking for opinions and advice, but the BITOGer PURIST does not stop at theory; he puts his theory to the test and reports back!
 
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Originally Posted By: dnewton3



I am curious about a few things ...

- what is it that lead to such a large accumulation of sludge? I am not greatly familiar with the engine in this van; does it have a propensity to sludge? Or, was maintenance neglected for a long time?
- if the vehicle had "normal" maintenance, then how is it you're going to get the sludge from it's settled position in the heads, into suspension and held there, and then into the filter? If it could not keep soot/insolubles low enough in a normal OCI plan, then what makes you think you can get it out now?
- if the vehicle was neglected, it's possible that "normal" maintenance might get the sludge out, but I doubt it. Sludge is VERY difficult to remove when the oil only washes over the surface of the muck and globule areas. It typically takes abrasion and physical friction contact to break sludge loose.


It was bought used with no previous history available. The van is definitely neglected. I would assume, using high detergent oils will break the sludge loose with extended highway driving where the van gets up to temperature.

Originally Posted By: bullwinkle
If your guy can get get the Casite CF1A, it's the cheaper Hastings FL1A, or the LF115 is a microglass blend. Make sure your thermostat isn't stuck open & you get the engine fully warmed up when you drive it, that'll help.


I actually think my new thermostat is stuck slightly open. When I get it onto highway my coolant temperature actually drops to almost the C mark, about 1/8 on the gauge.

Originally Posted By: Garak
Baldwin is the same thing as Hastings, so as long as you're able to get one at a good price. How can you call yourself a Canadian farmer if you're four hours away from a Peavey Mart?
wink.gif



Westcoast BC, Vancouver-ish area, we don't have those here. Only major chains with a few small places. :p


I ordered my filters today.

Baldwin B2 $5 and change
Hastings LF115 $4
 
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I think you found your reason for the sludge. The thermostat should be replaced with a factory temp one. For some reason there are still counter people saying cooler is better, but that is totally wrong thinking. That Napa at $3 stands out on your list.
 
Originally Posted By: goodtimes
I think you found your reason for the sludge. The thermostat should be replaced with a factory temp one. For some reason there are still counter people saying cooler is better, but that is totally wrong thinking. That Napa at $3 stands out on your list.


It is factory temp. I got it from Napa, they told me its factory temperature. This thermostat has only been on for 2 weeks. I'm not sure if I really like the Napa 21515, it has a combo valve and there is some noise on start up but goes away in about 2 seconds.
 
Change out the thermostat and PCV valve.

I would use the cheapest filter available and cut it open after each run. Combo valve, store filter, generic/shop filters... are fine.

Depending what ends up in the filter could help determine your OCI. But, I would start with oil&filter changes at 1000km, 2000km, 3000km... until you reach your preferred oil/filter change interval.
 
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Change out the thermostat and PCV valve.

I would use the cheapest filter available and cut it open after each run. Combo valve, store filter, generic/shop filters... are fine.

Depending what ends up in the filter could help determine your OCI. But, I would start with oil&filter changes at 1000km, 2000km, 3000km... until you reach your preferred oil/filter change interval.



Already have a new PCV Valve.

I have been cutting and posting my filters for inspection and sharing.
smile.gif


My last OCI was 400KM, so I am going to try for 800-900KM this time. With an extra filter change in between.
 
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