Toyota U.S.A., Inc. Does NOT back spec Gen2 Prius.

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Oct 20, 2005
Messages
9,511
Location
Scruffy City
This keeps coming up:

I e-mailed Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc. RE the continued statement that the Generation 2 Prius is back specced to xW/20 engine oil.

I included the two commonly posted charts related to this:

WARNING direct link to PDF Toyota-Engine-Oil-Guide.pdf

And:

Toyota Oil Applications - The one with all the dots in THIS post.

Note the first one is hosted on http://gp1cc.com which appears to be a large dealer group that has several Toyota and Lexus dealers.

I was told:

Originally Posted By: Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
For the second generation Prius, model years 2004 through 2009, Toyota only recommends the use of 5W-30.


When I specifically questioned the validity of the two charts I was told:

Originally Posted By: Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., Inc.
The Toyota Engine Oil Guide is reference material produced by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. Please be advised, as the manufacturer we can only guarantee documents obtained through Toyota’s public technical library, Technical Information System (TIS), are accurate and unaltered.

The Toyota Oil Applications document was not produced by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., and may be a document that was produced by a different distributor of Toyota.


The Toyota Engine Oil Guide is the first one and The Toyota Oil Applications is the second one.

Additionally as I previously posted:

Originally Posted By: DuckRyder

For the record: although TSB EG018-06 "ILSAC GF-4 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION" says "All '06 - '07 Toyota" and appears to specify 5W-20 or 0w-20 depending on engine, it includes a note.

Originally Posted By: TSB EG018-06 "ILSAC GF-4 ENGINE OIL RECOMMENDATION"
NOTE :
^ The recommended viscosity grade for this oil differs according to vehicle model. Use the recommended grade specified on the oil filler cap or in the Repair Manual or Owner's Manual for each vehicle.
^ For Prius vehicles, refer to TSB No. EGO5O-04, "Engine Oil Specifications."


and TSB No. EGO5O-04, "Engine Oil Specifications." says:

Originally Posted By: EGO5O-04, "Engine Oil Specifications."
2001 – 2007 model year Prius vehicles.

Ensure that the correct engine oil viscosity is used in the engine with the correct fill level
quantity as described in the Owner’s Manual:
Engine Oil Quantity, with filter,
qt.(L, Imp. qt.):
3.9 (3.7, 3.3)
Recommended Viscosity: SAE 5W–30
Engine Oil Grade: API grade SL “Energy–Conserving” OR
ILSAC GF–4


So unless someone can come up with a TSB that supersedes EGO5O-04 I maintain that a 2007 Prius is NOT back specced to 0W(or5W)-20
 
The reason is simple. Generation 2 Priuses have too many miles on them now. With high-mileage engines, valve-stem oil seals are worn. 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive oil consumption as a result.

In fact, instead of 5W-30, a better choice in such high-mileage engines is thicker grades such as 0W-40 or 10W-40 to control oil consumption.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The reason is simple. Generation 2 Priuses have too many miles on them now. With high-mileage engines, valve-stem oil seals are worn. 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive oil consumption as a result.


Really? 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive consumption in high mileage vehicles point blank?
 
If it were me, I would try it and see. The simple fact is that the Prius does everything it can to stay away from situations that would be hard on oil. Atlanta isn't exactly known for sub-zero temperatures or for being mountainous, if you follow me here.

Just to be clear, this is based upon my experience with the 2010 third generation Prius, 125k miles not in my signature because I don't change its oil.
 
My guess is not about "wear by this many miles or years" but rather 1) They don't think it is worth back spec (no cafe credit), and / or 2) The design can't justify 0w20 or 5w20 in theory (piston ring type, parts clearance, etc).
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The reason is simple. Generation 2 Priuses have too many miles on them now. With high-mileage engines, valve-stem oil seals are worn. 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive oil consumption as a result.


Really? 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive consumption in high mileage vehicles point blank?


I disagree with Gokhan..as if thats the case then why would 2003-2007 Corollas be ok to backspec?
 
I wonder... On engines that did not get backspec'd, might they have made some small change, but only tested the thin oil on the newer engine? Thus they don't "know" that the prior engine is actually just fine. And no one wants to spend the time and money to test the old setup.

What might change? I dunno. Maybe a slight change in a clearance, slight change in alloy, something that did not warrant a p/n change. A running change that is under the carpet because... it made sense, and it's the same thing and we save three cents... but no one wants to say the old part is ok with the oil change. Because if it did fail, then we'd have to admit there was a change, and a bunch owners now just potentially damaged their engines--and we are now on the hook for that.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
The reason is simple. Generation 2 Priuses have too many miles on them now. With high-mileage engines, valve-stem oil seals are worn. 0W-20 and 5W-20 will cause excessive oil consumption as a result.

In fact, instead of 5W-30, a better choice in such high-mileage engines is thicker grades such as 0W-40 or 10W-40 to control oil consumption.


so you went from your opinion that TGMO was the best out there to everything needs 0w40?
 
There's a Gen II Prius out here with 700K plus miles on Red Line 0w-20 since new. This engine oil can be considered a thick 20 weight or a very thin 30 weight. There has been nothing but routine maintenance including a battery at about 600K miles. The engine has not been touched inside. It's driven by 3 different people but they are the same 3 since new and they don't abuse the car, just drive it like it's a normal car. The oil is changed every 10K miles and the Mobil M1 oil filter is changed every other oil change. They use Red Line engine oil based on my good luck with the oil in my old Honda. They're not BITOG members so no one has told them that Red Line is absolutely no good for daily drivers and only suitable for racing so it's doing just fine.
 
Originally Posted By: supton
I wonder... On engines that did not get backspec'd, might they have made some small change, but only tested the thin oil on the newer engine? Thus they don't "know" that the prior engine is actually just fine. And no one wants to spend the time and money to test the old setup.

...


I hate to speculate, but Honda did back spec a lot of older cars, though in most cases only from 5W/20 to 0W/20.

I'm not really up on Toyota motors but the Prius C is speced for 0W/20 and uses the same engine designation, however if you believe the press releases changes were made.

The Yaris uses a similar engine (1NZ-FE vs 1NZ-FXE) and continues to specify "N (5W-30)3.9 qt." @ 5000 miles and 6 months up to 2014 which is the last year on the chart mentioned. (Some googling seems to indicate a Prius C = Yaris Hybrid in other markets)

It is all very strange.

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
There's a Gen II Prius out here with 700K plus miles on Red Line 0w-20 since new. ...


My only intention with this was to try to verify is Toyota USA had indeed back specced the car, my answer is "no".

What folks do with the information is up to them.
wink.gif
 
Last edited:
"The Toyota Oil Applications document was not produced by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., and may be a document that was produced by a different distributor of Toyota."

This is what I have a problem with. My Toyota dealer used this as a reference sheet. If a different distributor of Toyota came up with this, than why are they so vague? Im pretty confident that this did come from their technical library or TIS. I cant prove it, but assume thats where it was obtained and im confident ive also seen this same chart (the 2nd one) in the service bays. Wish we had someone who worked at a Toyota dealer who could confirm...

I think Toyota is protecting themselves, but I would use 0w20 with no afterthought (besides keeping eye on oil level).
 
Originally Posted By: Rolla07
"The Toyota Oil Applications document was not produced by Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A., and may be a document that was produced by a different distributor of Toyota."

This is what I have a problem with. My Toyota dealer used this as a reference sheet. If a different distributor of Toyota came up with this, than why are they so vague? Im pretty confident that this did come from their technical library or TIS. I cant prove it, but assume thats where it was obtained and im confident ive also seen this same chart (the 2nd one) in the service bays. Wish we had someone who worked at a Toyota dealer who could confirm...

I think Toyota is protecting themselves, but I would use 0w20 with no afterthought (besides keeping eye on oil level).


Well, your profile says you're in Canada, one would assume your dealer is as well, hence would not come under the purview of Toyota Motor Sales, U.S.A. but of Toyota Canada Inc. (TCI).

Therefore what your dealer uses is outside the scope of this thread. I would however be interested in hearing what Toyota Canada Inc. (TCI) has to say about those charts if you e-mail them and put it in a new thread.
 
Last edited:
Lol

Now, I see that the first chart is a made-up chart by a third party. It's not provided by Toyota.

For those who are not familiar with Toyota, TGMO is available in synthetic form for only 0W-20 grade.

It's clear in the official Toyota chart that 0W-20 is recommended for Generation 2 Prius.

My advice: base your oil selection on oil consumption. If the consumption is too high with xW-20, try xW-30. If it's still too high with xW-30, try 0W-40 or 10W-40 next time. You will see a big difference with worn valve-stem oil seals of older engines. I know this from experience before I changed my valve-stem oil seals. The engine will run fine with 0W-40 or 10W-40 with minimal impact on fuel economy if at all -- have no worries. When you reduce the oil consumption, you will increase the spark-plug life, catalytic-converter life, and oxygen-sensor life among other things. Such emission-component failure caused by high oil consumption is costly. You will also experience less wear thanks to thicker oil lubricating better with less metal-to-metal contact in wear-prone areas of the engine.

In the 1990s, when you walked into an auto store, the staff would ask you if you had less than 100,000 or more than 100,000 miles on your car. If you said less, they would give you conventional 10W-30 and if you said more, they would give you conventional 10W-40. Things were that simple back then.
 
Could be a matter of CAFE credit... Not sure how far back credit is issued but no doubt is beneficial for 'Yota and other mfgrs to recommend lighter oils in prev models...


As far as "because it now has high miles" likely isn't reason...
 
Use an oil pressure gauge.

Some engines might have a borderline oil pump and could possible cause the low PSI light to flicker.

If you have good oil pressure(verified with guage), use whatever you want.

Could also be a tuning issue. Maybe that Gen has more fuel dilution? or other technical issue(same spec but wider tolerance on supplier engine parts). Never assume engine is same from year to year.
 
Originally Posted By: Gokhan
Again, the first chart is made up. It's not a Toyota chart.

The actual Toyota chart (second chart) specifies both xW-20 and xW-30.


Is reading comprehension not your strong point?

Toyota USA (Which is the topic of this thread, not Toyota Canada, not what you would do, not what they did with a blue 4 door Buick in 90) Says very clearly that they only spec 5W/30 for the Gen 2 Prius.

They also say the chart with all the dots is not a Toyota USA document.

Toyota U.S.A., Inc. Does NOT back spec Gen2 Prius.

Period, end of story at this point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top