List of new cars with Timing belts?

[supton]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
What's next, a list of cars with drum brakes so we can avoid their slightly more mechanically tricky nature?

I seem to recall that exact conversation months ago here... am guessing this thread will go just as good as that one.

 

[supton]

Doesn't the Chevy Cruse with the base 1.8L come with a timing belt? I recall looking a year ago and realizing that the base motor used a belt.

Pretty sure VW still uses belts on their motors. Given their history with chains, that is probably a good thing (Passat TDi balance shafts, VR6's).

 

[gabriel9766]

Originally Posted By: supton
Doesn't the Chevy Cruse with the base 1.8L come with a timing belt? I recall looking a year ago and realizing that the base motor used a belt.

Pretty sure VW still uses belts on their motors. Given their history with chains, that is probably a good thing (Passat TDi balance shafts, VR6's).

Yes the 1.8 is belt driven and the 1.4 is chain driven. When i was looking for a car they tried to put me in a cruze. It was either a 1.8 with a timing belt or a turbo charged 1.4L. I sad no turbo or timing belt car for me. I was looking for a newer malibu, and found me one.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Originally Posted By: crazyoildude
A lot of chain driven engines use plastic guides that wear also


That's what would REALLY bother me. Cheap plastic guiding a spinning chain. What happens then these guides break?

 

[Rolla07]

Never had an issue with the timing chain..would of had to change the belt twice already..and am not that advanced, so id have to have had someone do it. Seems to me that in most cases a belt just adds more maintenance costs for the dealer.

 

[pbm]

Originally Posted By: Rolla07
Never had an issue with the timing chain..would of had to change the belt twice already..and am not that advanced, so id have to have had someone do it. Seems to me that in most cases a belt just adds more maintenance costs for the dealer.


I agree.

I would never buy a new car again that came with a belt.

 

[cat843]

Chains were great when the old V8 engines had pushrods. it was a nice simple path. Now chains and belts both have a complex path and both are a mixed bag.

 

[Ducked]

List of non-interference engines (with belts?) might be useful, since the belt doesn't matter nearly so much then.

 

[Trav]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
I often hear about how timing chains are supposedly noisier, but I've driven luxury cars with timing chains and their engines are quieter than cars with belts. In fact, luxury European makers primarily used chains for many years. Their owners didnt complained about noise? Makes me think the whole noise thing was one of those automotive wives tales perpetuated by car companies whose real motive was to save money



Do a few chains on those Euro cars with V engines then tell us how good they are. Some of these cars need to have the whole front bumper, radiator and condenser removed before you can even get to the front of the engine.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Trav

Do a few chains on those Euro cars with V engines then tell us how good they are. Some of these cars need to have the whole front bumper, radiator and condenser removed before you can even get to the front of the engine.



Scary!

But the theories are that the chain would never need replacement,, and that if you can afford a big euro v engine, that you can afford the maintenance, no?

A belt would put be easier in those situations, would it?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: cat843
Chains were great when the old V8 engines had pushrods. it was a nice simple path. Now chains and belts both have a complex path and both are a mixed bag.


+1.

Plus all the folks who boast about chains probably have not checked timing effects due to "stretch" (wear).. It's a standard part of maintenance on old MB Diesel engines. It's quite possible to have timing be off and require remediation, even with a chain. A belt resets all that at replacement time.

My mother had a belt break at around 85k on an old car they had. No damage fortunately. But they don't scare me if within the mileage and reasonable date range.

 

[Trav]

As a matter of fact the belt is much easier on most Euro V engines because of the lack of chain driven components that require pressure lubrication.
The front cover on the belt driven system doesn't need the sealing gaskets as the metal covers.
Once you throw plastic chain guides, multiple hydraulic tensioners and thin chains into the mix the reliability drops significantly over say an old school American pushrod V engine.
Yes you still need to pull the radiator but once your into it its very easy to change.

Both systems have their pro's and cons but a belt is no reason to pass on a car, in fact for me the belt is preferable on OHC V engines.

Some interesting reading.

http://redlinespeedworx.com/audi-v8-timing-chain-service-real-story/

http://www.benzworld.org/forums/w140-s-class/1211070-timing-chain-v12.html

https://mercedessource.com/problems/engine/preventing-catastrophic-v8-engine-failure

http://www.bmwblog.com/2015/10/28/bmw-to-replace-faulty-timing-chain-in-2008-2014-vehicles/

 

[willbur]

Trav-
Wouldn't that be the same for a belt in that application? Same path and packaging, just a belt instead of the chain. So maybe the chain is preferrable bc of it's longer life?

 

[artificialist]

Originally Posted By: supton
Doesn't the Chevy Cruse with the base 1.8L come with a timing belt? I recall looking a year ago and realizing that the base motor used a belt.

Pretty sure VW still uses belts on their motors. Given their history with chains, that is probably a good thing (Passat TDi balance shafts, VR6's).


I know the US Golf, Passat, and Jetta TDI engines have belts, but I don't know about other VW diesels.

As for the gasoline engines, I think VW went with chains on the second generation of 2.0 GDI turbo engines and all 1.8 GDI turbo engines. As for other engines they are using, I really don't know.

 

[dlayman]

As long as the belt change is easy, I wouldn't refuse to buy a car that used a belt, as long as the interval is at least 100k. I have an older civic that has a belt, and the change costs only about 300 at the dealer. Spark plug replacement is actually more expensive. I believe, in general, that cars with belts are generally a bit easier on the oil, possibly allowing more extended OCI, perhaps offsetting the belt cost a bit. If the vehicle has a non-interference engine, the belt really wouldn't be a major concern, or at least no more than a serpentine belt.

 

[Number_35]

I have mixed feelings about timing belts.

I think all TB-equipped engines should be non-interference. A fellow at a local import-specialist parts recycler told me that most of the engines they sell are Honda engines, to replace those destroyed by broken TBs.

However, timing chains (or their plastic guides) do fail, and they're typically not as easy to change as TBs.

In general I'd say TCs are best for all OHV (cam-in-block) engines.

For a simple (in-line) SOHC engine, a TC is a good solution.

For a complex engine (V-type, DOHC), the routing is usually complex, and a TB is better than a TC.

For an in-line DOHC or a V-type SOHC, it's a bit of a coin toss.

Consider the complex European TC-equipped engines you'll see in various threads here. What were they thinking?

Or Ford's 4.0 OHC ... a chain-driven jackshaft replaces the old cam-in-block, and drives separate chains to the heads. But one chain is driven off the back of the jackshaft, so the engine has to come out to work on the chain. C'mon guys!

A belt that has to be replaced at regular intervals would force the manufacturer to design in accessibility.

Trav, no doubt you've seen some beauties!

FWIW, my fleet (including Jr's car) includes an ancient SOHC V6 with a belt I could almost change in my sleep, a slightly less ancient DOHC inline-4 with a belt that's pretty easy to change, and a later DOHC in-line 4 with a chain.

 

[Trav]

I have seen some real nightmares in my time. Some of the reasons i see for timing belt failure are..
Going past the Manufacturers listed interval.
Failure to have a problem diagnosed and repaired until it fails eg idler/tensioner bearing noise or coolant leaks from pumps driven by the belt.

Use of low quality replacement parts and that includes some well known brands, some of the OE tensioner and idler bearings are double row. to save money these companies many times use single row, its a recipe for early failure as are poor grade water pumps.

Improper assembly, i see this once in a while with VW 2.slow tensioners being installed with the mark on the right instead of the left. Incorrect adjustment is another big one on manually adjusted tensioners.
Failure to torque fasteners to the correct torque.

Its a very rare occurrence that a OE belt will fail under the mileage it is supposed to be replaced at. When replacing use OE or known high quality parts that match the originals in quality like Aisin kits. Make sure if a double row bearing is used you are putting one back.
Beware of Aisin Knock offs sold on ebay, a real Aisin water pump has jewel like casting quality and is top shelf, Chicom knockoffs are shabby.

 

[hattaresguy]

Originally Posted By: xfactor9
I often hear about how timing chains are supposedly noisier, but I've driven luxury cars with timing chains and their engines are quieter than cars with belts. In fact, luxury European makers primarily used chains for many years. Their owners didnt complained about noise? Makes me think the whole noise thing was one of those automotive wives tales perpetuated by car companies whose real motive was to save money



Its cheaper for a manufacture to make a belt quite than to make a chain quite.

 

[TiredTrucker]

Had a VM 2.8L inline diesel in a Jeep that used belt. I did the belt at 100K per the recommendation and it wasn't that costly. I seen the same belts taken to 160K or more before failing. Owners that procrastinated. On certain motors, I have a preference for belts. Some, chains. And others, gears only. Each has it's place depending on the motor.

 

[Kiwi_ME]

VW is using a newer design belt with no maintenance interval on their latest 1.0 to 1.4 litre EA211 family of modular gasoline engines. The 1.4 has just appeared in the N-A market base Jetta and was already used in the hybrid.

Aside from using more advanced belt materials, the cam pulleys are slightly oval to minimise shock and allow a much lower tension. It runs dry unlike the Ecoboost 1.0.