These new cars are getting to be to smart for me

[OneEyeJack]

My neighbor is now done with new cars. His then brand new 2008 Dodge minivan was in the shop under warranty for 2 weeks because of a no start problem. Evidently the test equipment did not point to a specific problem so they started replacing parts from an alternator, black boxes, ignition module, various wiring and the final fix, the one that worked, the fuel pump. The service manager told him the bill would have been well over $2K if it were not under warranty. The manager had no concept of only charging for needed work by a qualified mechanic and not charging for mistakes.

Several weeks later the minivan owner was back at the dealership with his minivan on a tow truck. Evidently stuff in the fuel tank damaged the fuel pump and they had to replace the pump and the tank this time. It never occurred to anyone there to consider why the fuel pump failed the first time. The mechanic actually said he did not think there was an error code for contamination in the fuel tank so he never looked. This could explain some of the service problems with these new vehicles.

 

[JetStar]

Vehicles, especially the electronics are complex, and getting more complex as time goes on. Nobody wants to pay for the model specific equipment, documentation, or the skilled labor hours to utilize them. The FSM for a 2000 S10 Blazer is 3 volumes of several hundred pages each. Plus another two volumes for the unit repair manuals. And you need a Tech II tool to perform many of the diagnostics, like checking the 4wd control module. And this truck is 15 years old.

 

[Colt45ws]

More like waht happened was driving with a bad diode killed the pump.
It just dropped before the battery stopped being able to supply every thing.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
My neighbor is now done with new cars. His then brand new 2008 Dodge minivan was in the shop under warranty for 2 weeks because of a no start problem. Evidently the test equipment did not point to a specific problem so they started replacing parts from an alternator, black boxes, ignition module, various wiring and the final fix, the one that worked, the fuel pump. The service manager told him the bill would have been well over $2K if it were not under warranty. The manager had no concept of only charging for needed work by a qualified mechanic and not charging for mistakes.

Several weeks later the minivan owner was back at the dealership with his minivan on a tow truck. Evidently stuff in the fuel tank damaged the fuel pump and they had to replace the pump and the tank this time. It never occurred to anyone there to consider why the fuel pump failed the first time. The mechanic actually said he did not think there was an error code for contamination in the fuel tank so he never looked. This could explain some of the service problems with these new vehicles.



A lot of his trouble would be with technician working on his car, and not mechanic. I call them "installers" since that is what they do. Few young mechanics these days.

 

[eljefino]

And a mechanic has to be a reverse engineer because Dodge sure isn't telling us everything they know, or why they convolute everything.

A car lasts until it rusts in two or ticks off enough owners through price or inconvenience of repairs. (A tangent is if mechanics hate the cars and overcharge, it trickles down, though the cars may be cheap for "enthusiasts" who "get them".) Having obtuse diagnostics means an earlier grave.

 

[sciphi]

Diagnosis on modern cars needs more of a "systems" mindset than a "parts" mindset these days. Such as, "how is this system supposed to work and communicate with other parts correctly?" instead of "let's sling a part we think is wrong".

 

[moving2]

Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack

Finding solid older cars, pre 75 for California smog exemption...


Almost. It's 75 or older.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: sciphi
Diagnosis on modern cars needs more of a "systems" mindset than a "parts" mindset these days. Such as, "how is this system supposed to work and communicate with other parts correctly?" instead of "let's sling a part we think is wrong".


Yeah but the overall engineering could stand improvement.

Medium-duty trucks have an ECM close to or on top of the powertrain then they have pre-described pinouts for the rest of the gang to tap into. These pinouts don't change every year and the stuff needed to run and drive is pretty well isolated.

Your hastily gadget-ized minivan has dozens of gizmos on the CANBUS and if one of them does itself it it can stop the engine or at least cause nuisance check engine lights which can make the van illegal to drive.

Integration's hard when marketing wants to add a whozit at the 11th hour but it's this conservative engineering that makes something useful in its second decade.

 

[George7941]

An oscilloscope would have conclusively determined the health of the alternator and it would have prevented an unnecessary alternator replacement.

You are at a disadvantage if you cannot use a scope. It is absolutely necessary to diagnose some of the electrical issues on current vehicles