MG "B" Series Engines and Oils

[holdorf333]

I use Valvoline VR1 20w-50 dino with a PH3614 or L10241. The coolers were a good idea on the 1500s and 1800s because they couldn't keep oil temps down.

what I wouldn't give to talk to an Abingdon engineer. Oh, the questions I would ask. Technical stuff aside, like "how did you manage to get anything done while on strike all the time?"

 

[Silk]

I'd like to ask how come Weslake didn't ask that their name be taken off the rocker cover - it has to be the worst cyl head design ever. We were constantly doing head gaskets and burnt valves, or repairing cracks.

 

[Doug Hillary]

Hi,
holderf333 - In New Zealand, my first Engineering job was on the initial CKD Mini in 1959. The second was on the MG midget in 1962. I was to do some of my Engineering time at Birmingham in 1962-3. It never happened as for instance there were 39 BMC strikes in 1962. A major one was caused by an apprentice being the last to leave the main MG prototype workshop and having to shut the door! The Unions pulled them all out over this - too much responsibility.....
Wilmott Breedon was short of around 15000 workers over these sorts of things affecting all British car makers

Of the stories to tell, the British Motor Industry was wrecked by the militant Unions of that era

I did my time in the London area at Stewart & Ardern at Acton and elsewhere

 

[Gokhan]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
So, with all of that out of the way, can anyone suggest an oil that would be a good match for this engine? The factory specified either 20W50 or SAE 30(for basically everything, including the transmission and the carburetor damping oil), so am inclined to stick with a 20W50 but am open to other weights if they would provide some real benefit.

Mobil 1 15W-50 SN, 1,200 ppm phosphorous (P), cheaply available at Walmart and amazon.com. You get better wear protection, cleaning, cold starts, etc. with synthetic than with conventional. It should work very well with your old flat-tappet engine.

The superb M1 0W-40 SN (1,000 ppm P) could also work but it's a lot thinner (13.5 cSt vs. 18.0 cSt @ 100 C). Therefore, there is a chance that your wear and oil consumption may increase. People reported it successfully running in German engines calling for 10W-60 -- in fact showing less wear.

 

[expat]

I started working for an egineering company in 74. My third day of work I arrive to meet with a picket line at the company's gates.

Transport and General Workers Union had called a general strike. London was at a standstill.
Why? Three dockworkers (Longshoremen) had been cought stealing and had been suspended.

I guess the union thought that was wrong.

 

[Moondawg]

I owned and drove a MGB for about five years back in the 1990s. I drove the critter to and from work, city driving about 20 miles a day, plus occasional weekend driving around town. As I recall I used Havoline 10w-40 dino oil and 3,000 mile OCI, with a Fram filter. The engine did fine on that and I had no sludge. It was running good the day I sold it.

 

[bruno]

On the contrary the oil cooler was a necessity . Seeing earlier series B's and A's without the cooler the engines did not do well driving Interstate highways in U.S Summer temperatures .

 

[fdcg27]

The only time that I felt the lack of an oil cooler in my MGB was on a day of insanely fast long-haul interstate traffic, where I was able to run more than 4500 revs continuously for many miles on a very hot day. For an MGB without overdrive, like mine, this was around 80+ mph, so not really that fast.
Oil pressure did drop noticeably after awhile on 10W-40, so I backed off to around 70 mph.
For a car run really hard, 20W-50 might be needed.
For most users in most uses, a 10W-40 is fine and the oil cooler probably isn't needed.
The oil pressure gauge is your friend.

 

[Silk]

The MGB had a pretty easy time compared to other cars in the BMC range using the same engine - the Austin, Morris and Wolseley 1800's, which had the engine and gearbox sharing the same oil. I had a couple, one in the early '80's, and another in the early '90's. Often loaded with 4 adults and a couple of kids, towing a trailer with 2 motorcycles...the oil would be having a harder time than an MGB. I don't know what oil I was using in the '80's, but when I had the 2nd one I was working at a BP station and using Visco 2000 in it.

 

[bunnspecial]

Things are looking good with the Valvoline VR-1 and the oil cooler block(piece of cardboard) in place. I need to get the idle down a bit, but other than that everything looks good to me-here's the instrument panel with everything good and warm after an interstate trip.

Unfortunately, I think the new set of plug wires I got from Autozone is a dud, or at least has one dud wire. I kept getting backfires out the exhaust accompanied by a loss of power, and could temporarily remedy it by pulling and reseating the wires at both the cap and on the plugs. It's never done that before, so I'm assuming it must be related to the new ignition parts I installed(wires, rotor, and cap). But, that's another story...

 

[BrocLuno]

Moroso Spiral Core wires and NGK platinum resistor plugs gapped 0.035~40 will make it run better and start easier

I know that's not what it came with, but things HAVE Evolved since that was a new car

 

[bunnspecial]

I'm running NGK BPR6ES plugs, which are the resistor version of what a lot of folks on the MG experience swear by. They're a copper plug, but I like the big center electrode that supposedly is less resistant to fouling than the small electrode on platinum plugs.

In any case, I'm running a .025 gap in them(or at least that's where I set it when I installed them 3 weeks ago). The ones I took out were about about .030, and I've been wondering if I should open the new ones up to that. I have to admit that I've been worried about stressing the oil coil too much, but it's a cheap enough part that I'd sacrifice a shorter life on it for better performance and especially easier starting.

I'm definitely going to put the old wires back in, though, and go shopping for a better set. Of course, I suppose the problem could be in the cap or rotor, but I really think it's the wires.

I have to admit COP ignition is nice. When I did plugs in my DD about a year and a half ago, I bought the OEM NGK Platinum-Iridiums and used the out of the box gap(.045). Amazingly enough, the 125,000 mile factory plugs retain that gap. I think you need about 40KV to jump a .45 gap, which a COP system can handle without breaking a sweat.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
bunnspecial - I have some considerable experience with the "B" Series engine. In their early days I saw them go out to 350k before overhaul or major issues. We used 20W-20, 30 or 10W-30 lubricants and the results were always excellent

In your case I would suggest using a 15W-40 late series HDEO - I used a synthetic 5W-40 HDEO in the last MGB I owned - I sold it in 2003

Doug, I agree 20W-50 is too heavy for the OP's 'B' and the high quoted oil pressure appears to confirm that.
20-25 psi on idle and 50 psi at elevated rev's would seem more appropriate but I would look up
it up. Even owners manuals of the day contained that sort of info.
I would think an oil like Rotella T6 5W-40 should be a good choice or even M1 0W-40 if he can maintain the required minimum hot oil pressure. The engine will certainly run better.

 

[expat]

The high idle speed goes a long way to explane the 50psi hot oil pressure.

It seems there might be ignition issues also.
With luck it's just the plug wires. But if I were a gambling man, I might bet that there is a fare amount of ignition timing scatter caused by a worn distributor shaft and bearings.

Does the ponts gap change if you wiggle the distributor shaft?


Slow the idle down if you can. But generaly don't spend time playing with the Carbs until you have the ignition 100% (or what passes for 100% on an old British car)

 

[holdorf333]

Originally Posted By: Doug Hillary
Hi,
holderf333 - In New Zealand, my first Engineering job was on the initial CKD Mini in 1959. The second was on the MG midget in 1962. I was to do some of my Engineering time at Birmingham in 1962-3. It never happened as for instance there were 39 BMC strikes in 1962. A major one was caused by an apprentice being the last to leave the main MG prototype workshop and having to shut the door! The Unions pulled them all out over this - too much responsibility.....
Wilmott Breedon was short of around 15000 workers over these sorts of things affecting all British car makers

Of the stories to tell, the British Motor Industry was wrecked by the militant Unions of that era

I did my time in the London area at Stewart & Ardern at Acton and elsewhere

I put the onus of function on the engineers, but I suppose my comment would be better aimed at the unions and the can't get along mentality of BL at the time. I always marveled at the hit-n-miss nature of the british mend and make do approach; that being said, some things they got fantastically correct. the steering feel of the midget, for example. how amazing to feel exactly like you are driving a go-kart to work!

 

[pdxglocker9mm]

Originally Posted By: bunnspecial
I'm running NGK BPR6ES plugs, which are the resistor version of what a lot of folks on the MG experience swear by. They're a copper plug, but I like the big center electrode that supposedly is less resistant to fouling than the small electrode on platinum plugs.

In any case, I'm running a .025 gap in them(or at least that's where I set it when I installed them 3 weeks ago). The ones I took out were about about .030, and I've been wondering if I should open the new ones up to that. I have to admit that I've been worried about stressing the oil coil too much, but it's a cheap enough part that I'd sacrifice a shorter life on it for better performance and especially easier starting.

I'm definitely going to put the old wires back in, though, and go shopping for a better set. Of course, I suppose the problem could be in the cap or rotor, but I really think it's the wires.

I have to admit COP ignition is nice. When I did plugs in my DD about a year and a half ago, I bought the OEM NGK Platinum-Iridiums and used the out of the box gap(.045). Amazingly enough, the 125,000 mile factory plugs retain that gap. I think you need about 40KV to jump a .45 gap, which a COP system can handle without breaking a sweat.


In my old 1971 Volvo 142E
I converted the points to electronic ignition with the CRANE XR3000
I hung a 45k crane coil on the fire wall to go with it.
with the bosh D-jetronic (electronic fuel injection) and the electronic ignition it was pretty much like starting a modern vehicle. I ran NGK plugs BPR6HS and opened up the gap to about 0.035". The big flame from the large coil and the bigger spark plug gap made it run very well. I would every so often check the timing but it never changed. I went with the xr3000 over the xr700 because you could use a larger coil

If I had an old car with points I would drop them like a bad habit it will make tuning much easier.

 

[expat]

Going to an electronic ignition can make a huge differance in overall performance. But, to be honest, I do not have much faith in optical ignitions such as Crane.

In the past I have used Allison kits and Piranha only to have them fail, and when they do, they die in an instant!

No manufacturer (that I know of) ever used an optical system as OE

Ultimatly a crank triggered system like Mega Jolt is the way to go. But anything is an improvment over the standard Lucas points distributor.

Unless it's a Lucas electronic distributor

 

[BrocLuno]

You can use the points to trigger the CDI and take all of the current load off the points. They last much longer that way. And, if you need to, you can convert back in a parking lot...

 

[Silk]

I tried all this on my Lada 2104 and checked and recorded each step on my DSO scope. The only thing that made a difference was a better coil, almost doubled the burn time.

 

[expat]

Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
You can use the points to trigger the CDI and take all of the current load off the points. They last much longer that way. And, if you need to, you can convert back in a parking lot...


But you still have the potential inaccuracy of cam lobes turning at half crankshaft RPM
(each degree of distributor cam inaccuracy is doubled when it comes to spark btdc)

Consider, lucas cyl distributors would typically show about 4 degrees of ignition scatter WHEN NEW, FROM THE FACTORY.
Add to this distributor shaft bearings that required periodic, manual, oiling. But in reality, seldom, if ever were
After 40 years or so of use, you could well have a distributor, that MIGHT fire, or NOT AT ALL, depending on how the worn distributor shaft might wobble.