Oil Viscosity Question
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In my opinion, go ahead and use MMO. You already have it in your possession. I have used it off and on for the last 30 years. It has been out there for the last 89 years. It is a thin oil and will help things flow a little better. Using up to 1qt does seem to help clean an engine.Run it at least 500 mile but no more than 3000 miles. I will say it's not used as much now days.It is a good product imo that the need for has almost gone away. The quick drop in TBN is indicative of the HCl production from burning off any chlorinated material. But these same solvents are great at dissolving crud and baked on deposits which is why one wants to change the oil earlier.
MMO isn't such a mystery :70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.
29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant
900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.
Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
It just works!
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.
29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant
900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.
Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
It just works!
Adding more oil, overfilling, will make the oil take longer to warmup. Take at least a quart out. A quick drain plug job, will take about 3 to 4 seconds to drain 1 qt. Replace while its runnig. Easy stuff. Use glove as a big pan below. Kkk
OVERKILL
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Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
MMO isn't such a mystery :70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.
29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant
900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.
Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
It just works!
Which I assume you pulled from this thread:
http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2404898
in which Molakule also states:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
As far as claimed benefits or effectiveness, you have to take their word for it or look at public testimonials, or use it yourself, and then decide the costs verses any perceived benefits.
As I have questioned many times, in the context of motor oil additives, what chemical compound do you think we formulators have purposely left out of fully formulated motor oils, to require you to buy OTC or third party additives? ???
Which is pretty much my take on it. It is a high volatility low VI base oil with some mineral spirits and a touch of AW additives tossed in. It is completely obsolete.
MMO isn't such a mystery :70% Light Aromatic Oil (Pale Oil)
- It is a Naphthenic Oil, so while it oxidizes faster than a Paraffinic oil, it does clean and dissolve sludge and carbon well and cleans up after itself from any oxidation. serves as base oil as well. [Naphthenic oils have more solvency and are more polar (they are attracted to metal more), but oxidize faster.
29% Mineral Spirits
- Cleans Varnish very well. General cleaner. Also acts as an antioxidant.
38 parts per million (ppm) Boron
- AW/EP agent, friction reducer, antioxidant
900 ppm Phosporous
- AW/EP agent
1/2% 1, 2 ortho-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
1/4% 1, 4 para-Dichlorobenzene
- EP agent as it interacts with Iron to form an Iron chloride barrier under any ZDDP or other AW additives. Also very good cleaner/solvent, and friction reducer
Oil of wintergreen - for the scent
- Not just for the cent, is also a cleaner. may aid lubricity.
Red Dye - for the color
- well this one just colors the stuff
It just works!
Which I assume you pulled from this thread:
http://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2404898
in which Molakule also states:
Originally Posted By: Molakule
As far as claimed benefits or effectiveness, you have to take their word for it or look at public testimonials, or use it yourself, and then decide the costs verses any perceived benefits.
As I have questioned many times, in the context of motor oil additives, what chemical compound do you think we formulators have purposely left out of fully formulated motor oils, to require you to buy OTC or third party additives? ???
Which is pretty much my take on it. It is a high volatility low VI base oil with some mineral spirits and a touch of AW additives tossed in. It is completely obsolete.
Here's a 2015 MSDS...
https://www.turtlewax.com/docs/default-source/2015-msds/mm12r-50094-0315-sds
the post above pretty well nails it...2-3cst at 100C
dilutes the ad pack, offers little bar thinning it...
https://www.turtlewax.com/docs/default-source/2015-msds/mm12r-50094-0315-sds
the post above pretty well nails it...2-3cst at 100C
dilutes the ad pack, offers little bar thinning it...
I am not advocating the use of additives or mixing oils. I was just answering a question with my opinion, my past experiences and maybe some helpful info. I am not trying to start a debate. I know some are very passionate in their beliefs. This is just one trip in cold temps. There has been no bad documented info on MMO but it's need is diminishing.
I use My shops bulk Fleet 15W-40 oil with no problems down to -20 F below in every vehicle i own....all have lived a VERY LONG life. and Even a longer life after I sold them.... your 10w-30 is fine down to very low temps. USE IT.
In the 80's and early 90's i ran a pint of mmo in my oil to keep sludge away. I had an 86 olds ciera 2.8 and ran 5w 30 with a pint of mmo every change. I really had no idea i was probably running a 20w oil when you consider the mmo and how oil sheared then. The car had 200k when i junked it no engine problems.
Would i run mmo now? No, no real reason to. But i think if the op wants to add it in this case to reduce the viscosity a bit, its not going to hurt for a 3k run, considering i used it for almost 200k.
Having said that, the 10w 30 is probably fine as well at the temps mentioned.
Its whatever makes him feel better, either will be ok.
It had its use in its day. I also feel its obsolete with todays oils.
Would i run mmo now? No, no real reason to. But i think if the op wants to add it in this case to reduce the viscosity a bit, its not going to hurt for a 3k run, considering i used it for almost 200k.
Having said that, the 10w 30 is probably fine as well at the temps mentioned.
Its whatever makes him feel better, either will be ok.
It had its use in its day. I also feel its obsolete with todays oils.
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Originally Posted By: Cristobal
I do not like start up engine tick. I got that once in 2008. I do not want it again.
What do you guys have against MMO? This is strange. It has a place in the automotive world.
But not as motor oil. Just stick a light bulb under the hood for the night if you're so OCI about it that you have to dilute your oil. Use gas, It's cheaper.
I do not like start up engine tick. I got that once in 2008. I do not want it again.
What do you guys have against MMO? This is strange. It has a place in the automotive world.
But not as motor oil. Just stick a light bulb under the hood for the night if you're so OCI about it that you have to dilute your oil. Use gas, It's cheaper.
Originally Posted By: car51
Guys: we ARE dealing with a lost cause here. Let him dump ANY additive he feels like pouring into the engine, as its his engine LOL!
Sure, fill the entire crankcase with it. It "probably won't do any harm". ROFL.
Guys: we ARE dealing with a lost cause here. Let him dump ANY additive he feels like pouring into the engine, as its his engine LOL!
Sure, fill the entire crankcase with it. It "probably won't do any harm". ROFL.
Originally Posted By: Toaster_Jer
I am not advocating the use of additives or mixing oils. I was just answering a question with my opinion, my past experiences and maybe some helpful info. I am not trying to start a debate. I know some are very passionate in their beliefs. This is just one trip in cold temps. There has been no bad documented info on MMO but it's need is diminishing.
If it's got the word "mystery" in it, it must be good.
I am not advocating the use of additives or mixing oils. I was just answering a question with my opinion, my past experiences and maybe some helpful info. I am not trying to start a debate. I know some are very passionate in their beliefs. This is just one trip in cold temps. There has been no bad documented info on MMO but it's need is diminishing.
If it's got the word "mystery" in it, it must be good.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Cristobal
In about a month, I will go up to an area where the 5:00 AM lows are around -10 F to zero F.
This is no problem for a 10W-30, especially PYB 10W-30, which specifies an MRV of 23,000 cP at -22 F, well below the industry maximum of 60,000 cP. Therefore, it will start normally at -10 F. Do not use any additives.
Since you have an old engine, 10W-30 is probably too thin and needlessly increases oil consumption. I recommend 0W-40 (preferred) or 5W-40 for the future -- for less oil consumption and less wear and easier starts in the winter.
In about a month, I will go up to an area where the 5:00 AM lows are around -10 F to zero F.
This is no problem for a 10W-30, especially PYB 10W-30, which specifies an MRV of 23,000 cP at -22 F, well below the industry maximum of 60,000 cP. Therefore, it will start normally at -10 F. Do not use any additives.
Since you have an old engine, 10W-30 is probably too thin and needlessly increases oil consumption. I recommend 0W-40 (preferred) or 5W-40 for the future -- for less oil consumption and less wear and easier starts in the winter.
Originally Posted By: TFB1
It's no doubt better than using kerosene as was recommended in the 30s & '40s to thin oil...
As others have mentioned I've never heard of anyone having a problem when using MMO and had a friend that put it in all his vehicles...
The kerosene wasn't a bad idea at the time. In fact, it was probably needed.
In the 30s & 40s, you had mono grade oils. Only. If you were running a "medium cylinder oil" as specified for fall from my 1932 Veedol lubrication chart, you had a monograde 40 in your crankcase.
Take that straight 40 grade into -10F with a six volt battery and starter, and you needed the kerosene to have a prayer of getting the engine to turn over.
It's no doubt better than using kerosene as was recommended in the 30s & '40s to thin oil...
As others have mentioned I've never heard of anyone having a problem when using MMO and had a friend that put it in all his vehicles...
The kerosene wasn't a bad idea at the time. In fact, it was probably needed.
In the 30s & 40s, you had mono grade oils. Only. If you were running a "medium cylinder oil" as specified for fall from my 1932 Veedol lubrication chart, you had a monograde 40 in your crankcase.
Take that straight 40 grade into -10F with a six volt battery and starter, and you needed the kerosene to have a prayer of getting the engine to turn over.
Google Book Reference....
have had mixed results with Google books links.
Has some info on the startability of the kerosene diluted oils, and that they in a duty cycle returned back to an unstartable viscosity.
edit...probably the kero worked on the waxes that formed at low temps, same as winter blend diesel here is just kerosene enhanced.
have had mixed results with Google books links.
Has some info on the startability of the kerosene diluted oils, and that they in a duty cycle returned back to an unstartable viscosity.
edit...probably the kero worked on the waxes that formed at low temps, same as winter blend diesel here is just kerosene enhanced.
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: ShotGun429
I use My shops bulk Fleet 15W-40 oil with no problems down to -20 F below in every vehicle i own....all have lived a VERY LONG life. and Even a longer life after I sold them.... your 10w-30 is fine down to very low temps. USE IT.
I would tend to agree. When I can get 1.4 million miles out of one motor, 986,000 out of another on using just 15w40, year round, in the upper tier of the U.S., not sure I would worry too much about using a 10w30 down into minus zero territory. (both of those vehicles got sold and went right to work for next owners) Of course, not all that far into minus territory. Especially when one looks at the cold flow pour points of many of todays oils. I realize the SAE, API, etc standard on 10w30 cold temp range is one thing, but I have yet to see any name brand modern oil not do better than the cold flow standard for the grade it is is classified as.
I use My shops bulk Fleet 15W-40 oil with no problems down to -20 F below in every vehicle i own....all have lived a VERY LONG life. and Even a longer life after I sold them.... your 10w-30 is fine down to very low temps. USE IT.
I would tend to agree. When I can get 1.4 million miles out of one motor, 986,000 out of another on using just 15w40, year round, in the upper tier of the U.S., not sure I would worry too much about using a 10w30 down into minus zero territory. (both of those vehicles got sold and went right to work for next owners) Of course, not all that far into minus territory. Especially when one looks at the cold flow pour points of many of todays oils. I realize the SAE, API, etc standard on 10w30 cold temp range is one thing, but I have yet to see any name brand modern oil not do better than the cold flow standard for the grade it is is classified as.
I personally wouldnt put any solvent inside the cranckcase to run 3k miles. If needed, I would add a thin oil and MMO is a thin oil, not a kerosene as someone - that I wont name in respect of a lot of great insights and advices - said in here, the great scatology ever as MMo being a no smell kero, under the belt argument that it was analised in a university campus, bla-bla-blah.
Originally Posted By: Pontual
I personally wouldnt put any solvent inside the cranckcase to run 3k miles. If needed, I would add a thin oil and MMO is a thin oil, not a kerosene as someone - that I wont name in respect of a lot of great insights and advices - said in here, the great scatology ever as MMo being a no smell kero, under the belt argument that it was analised in a university campus, bla-bla-blah.
The kerosene was a good idea 70 years ago, given the technology (both oil and electrical) of the time. It was recommended in my Packard owners manual (a reproduction, but I do have one).
Never suggested the OP should use it.
I suggested the OP would be fine and that he should simply drive the car and STOP considering pouring stuff into his car for this trip...
I personally wouldnt put any solvent inside the cranckcase to run 3k miles. If needed, I would add a thin oil and MMO is a thin oil, not a kerosene as someone - that I wont name in respect of a lot of great insights and advices - said in here, the great scatology ever as MMo being a no smell kero, under the belt argument that it was analised in a university campus, bla-bla-blah.
The kerosene was a good idea 70 years ago, given the technology (both oil and electrical) of the time. It was recommended in my Packard owners manual (a reproduction, but I do have one).
Never suggested the OP should use it.
I suggested the OP would be fine and that he should simply drive the car and STOP considering pouring stuff into his car for this trip...
Just use the MMO. Not gonna hurt anything. Might do a little cleaning before the next oil change. Next gas fillup you may as well just add the 4oz per 10gal of gas capacity, then put the remainder of the bottle in the oil.
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