Corvette UA0 with Redline 5w30: High Lead

[alarmguy]

Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Originally Posted By: CT8
Originally Posted By: Dirty_Howie
Just to be clear. I am not concerned about the added cost of a premium oil. This is a $17K motor to replace if it blows up !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks guys for coming to a concensus. I will do the Mobil1 0w40 and then we can compare UAO.

DH
Oil is the cheapest diagnostic thing you can do. It seems Redline oil works great or it doesn't . I thought Redline was the end all to be all oil but over the years it seems not to be.I only use the MTL and D4 with good results.This is really a stupid statement but years ago when I would go to the boat drags, the top fuel engines running Redline didn't look any better on the rebuild between matches that the engines using other oils. But then The life of the engine is maybe a minute or two.


I was only going by online enthusiasm for RL. I am not married to it and will be very happy if Mobil 0w40 works as good or better.

DH


(Im just kidding around when I say this)

Well sort of kidding ... !
Red Line =... High price, marketing.
I swear, whenever I see bad oil reports I feel like it is always the "magic" expensive oils that do nothing more then marketing ... its never the dirt cheap stuff with no marketing or just plain Jane brand name stuff like Valvoline, always the exotic stuff.
No name dirt cheap stuff always surprises everyone, why? Its all just oil. Nothing will magically defy the laws of physics.

Expensive oils make people think they are doing what is best for their car, yet there is nothing about the expensive oil that is magical. Im almost willing to bet Super Tech oil would have performed better in your case.

Anyway, just this early mornings rant *L*

 

[camrydriver111]

I'm curious about the results, but my prediction is M1 0W40 will give the exact same numbers.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Originally Posted By: camrydriver111
I'm curious about the results, but my prediction is M1 0W40 will give the exact same numbers.


Obviously, I too am going to be very curious to see what changes occur if any. If results are same or better I will be sticking with the Mobil if not I may try Redline 0w40.

DH

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Haven't forgot about this. So far I have 1500 miles and one AutoCross event. Doing another AutoCross this weekend.

DH

 

[JSRT4]

Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
I am troubled by this new (to me) pressure viscosity coefficient metric. If indeed it shows a weakness in ester based oils it does not square with over 20 years of continuous hard use of Redline oils in the SE-R in the signature below. As some of you know I have described its use in various competitions and hard use up to this day. 225K of 242K miles has been "ester based oil" without so much as a spun bearing or any other need to have it apart. Hard use is putting it mildly with innumerable long stints into and out of the 6-8000rpm range and it is still repeatedly redlined in the local mountains at least once per week. I would find it unlikely anybody would say it's not seen extremely hard use.

Until I see some real world example that PVC has something other than theoretical merit with esters I will remain unconvinced. It may be that PVC is a distinction without a difference. I just don't know but if it's held everything together for a couple of hundred thousand miles then something about the PVC metric regarding esters is in doubt. I do wish the OP well with this change to a known exceptional oil. I expect good results although I too worry it may be a bit thin.


Your real world experience is more important to me than some pvc test. If pvc was everything to a motor oil everyone would be adding Prolong to olive oil and we'd call it a day, lol.

I ran Red Line 5w30 on a recent trip to the Dragon in NC in my Honda S2000. We drove many days in high-g & high rpm corners, it was probably the hardest driving I've ever put my car through. When I compared that UOA sample to a typical easy street- driving OCI I've done in the past the wear numbers were very comparable. I think Red Line shines in hard driving environments, it's not going to save you from mechanical engine issues if your engine is destined to self-destruct though. I've been quite pleased with it, the cost of the oil isn't a concern to me as I only do one oil change a year on this car.

 

[DeepFriar]

Deal's Gap is only about a hundred miles from my home so I go up there 2-3 times a year after calling to be sure it's not too busy. Plenty of other good roads in that area as well. Definitely a fun workout! Must be great fun indeed in an S2000.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

2,000 miles now ........

DH

 

[JSRT4]

Originally Posted By: DeepFriar
Deal's Gap is only about a hundred miles from my home so I go up there 2-3 times a year after calling to be sure it's not too busy. Plenty of other good roads in that area as well. Definitely a fun workout! Must be great fun indeed in an S2000.


I loved the entire region. The Dragon is the main draw but I found other roads that I liked even better. You can only take so many 180 degree switchbacks, lol. It wasn't very busy there in April so we could hit the roads at a pretty good clip.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Getting oil changed in 4 weeks ........

Will be interested to see results. Car is being driven less. Sitting for days without starting where as it used to be driven every day. Lots of shorter drives with oil not getting up to temp due to cold weather. More AutoX than previous OCI.

DH

 

[Geoff]

I have typically single digit bearing wear metals with my LS3/Camaro. Last was 1 ppm for lead/tin and 6 ppm for aluminum) after 4K OCIs with at least two track days in there. My recommendations:

- Dexos2 is factory fill for the LS3 in Europe where oil temps are more often higher. This means ACEA c3 and usually xw-40. I use Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-30/C3 (not platinum or US Ultra).
- Also, not saying you do, but don't lug the motor at 1100 rpm..which loads up the bearings.
- Let the engine warm to 110 deg F before driving off and keep the revs down until operating temp. The oil bypass is 50 psi and thick cold oil will get dumped back in the pan.
- Correct air filtration makes a big difference. Watch out for after market CAI's. Silicon should be less than 10 ppm. This may be your issue.
- While GF5 5w-30 is too thin for anything but commuting, there is a lot of anecdotal evidence on the web that 15w50 is too thick, even for track use. Some high bearing wear on www.camaro5.com and spun bearings on corvette forums.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Thanks for your input.

I always let the car warm for at least 5 minutes on cold starts. I assume you mean 115* coolant as oil temp does not get up to 115* until car is driven for several minutes due to the large oil cooler. Revs never go over 3K until oil temp reaches 150*. Good advise on the lugging, I know this and try to keep revs near 2K. On the freeway I don't upshift to 6th unless I'm going over 70mph. I have the stock air intake and recently put in a brand new filter.

DH

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: Gokhan
This very interesting Chevron patent claims that GTL base stocks have a higher pressure - viscosity coefficient (PVC), which means a lot thicker oil film under pressure (a lot higher oil-film strength, which results in an a lot higher EHL [elastohydrodynamic lubrication] film), which in turn means a lot less wear. Patent also emphasizes that the effect has nothing to do with the base stock's viscosity index (VI). Note that PVC is the exponential coefficient that relates a base stock's viscosity under pressure (such as thousands of atmospheric pressure produced when squeezed between moving parts) to its atmospheric-pressure viscosity reported in the specification sheets (KV40 and KV100).

I am now considering the switch to the new generation of oil technology using GTL base stocks, currently available in Pennzoil Platinum PurePlus products.

Chevron patent: Lubricating oil with improved wear properties

Link to the thread under PCMO: Click here


That patent is about cams and roller bearings...not lead from (presumably engine bearings).

As per previous discussion, I seriously doubt that the average (particularly white metal based) can withstand enough surface pressure for the PVC to factor into it.

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Sorry this is taking so long. I have my oil change scheduled for next Saturday. Should barely have 3K miles on the OCI.

DH

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Oil is being changed today.
Will send to Blackstone on Monday morning.
I usually get report in a week or so.
Will post report the soon as its emailed to me.

DH

 

[jdavis]

Looking forward to it!!

 

[CT8]

Me too!

 

[Dirty_Howie]

I emailed the last tech at Blackstone who I conversed with regarding questions I had regarding metal contents and possible sources. She told me my sample is up for analysis today and report should be available this afternoon. I will post the report and any information she emails me in regards to it as soon as it arrives.

DH

 

[CT8]

Dirty_Howie , I am waiting !!!

 

[Dirty_Howie]

Well finally here is my latest UAO switching from Redline 5w30 to Mobil1 0w40. There is a little less milage but not significant in my opinion as most metals are constant with previous samples except for the LEAD. I had more AutoX time.

Congradulations to those members who predicted the results. Hopefully many will comment again and decipher the results. Unless convinced otherwise I will be staying with the Mobil1.

Here is an email I recieved from Blackstone this morning after my inquiry and before report was received. Please note and comment on the thought that bearing might be ready to fail. Also not sure why Blackstone's comments on the report say they have "no idea" when I specifically spelled out that I switched oils.

I just had a chance to look at the data from your report today. I think
you'll be pleased. Most metals are steady, but lead has come down quite a
bit. (By half, actually, and that's quite an improvement.) I will say that
if suddenly metals start to look better for no apparent reason, maybe --
maybe -- the bearings are wearing out, as you had asked about in the past.
But assuming you're still getting good oil pressure, not hearing any noises
or anything like that, I would say it's kind of premature to start talking
about that. I just know it had been a question of yours in the past, so I
wanted to mention it.

You can see the slight change in additives in your latest report (the
report still needs to be proofread, so it'll be sent out after that's
done). This oil has less molybdenum, more boron and calcium. The viscosity
was within the expected range, so that's a nice improvement, though I don't
necessarily think the readings being off in the past were of any
consequence. I doubt the change in oils would be to thank for the
improvement in wear, but if you want to test the idea, switch back to
Redline and see if wear goes back up. (That's a common question we get when
wear improves following an oil brand change, so I thought I'd head off any
questions in that department.)

Anyway, you should have your report within a few hours. Let me know if you
think of questions!



DH

 

[bigt61]

Wow - that's impressive. Quite a difference with just a simple change of oil type. It will be interesting to see if the trend continues, or even improves with the next OCI. 2 thumbs up.