Russian jet shot down

[Andy636]

You can't trust the Turks, today they will kiss your buttchicks and pet you on the shoulder for opening a new mosque in your country and 2 weeks later they will shoot your airplanes out of the skies.

In the last 1,000 years they did more rapping and pillaging in Europe than anybody else...

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Andy636
You can't trust the Turks, today they will kiss your buttchicks and pet you on the shoulder for opening a new mosque in your country and 2 weeks later they will shoot your airplanes out of the skies.

In the last 1,000 years they did more rapping and pillaging in Europe than anybody else...


Not far from the truth here. Turkey has been a very poor NATO member. They have caused more than a few issues and not exactly held up to the obligations that are in the charter. Sure, they like the benefits though. But if it wasn't for the strategic region they inhabit, NATO really wouldn't have much use for them.
While Russia should have known better than to fly into Turkish airspace, the reaction from the Turks, in my opinion, was a bit extreme given the ramifications an action like that can entail. I don't think they worry much though. Being a NATO member...even a crummy one....all members are obliged to consider an attack on one, an attack on all. So we'd be the ones to once again come to the rescue...against a nation that really isn't our enemy right now and we certainly don't need a conflict with. Especially over Turkey.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Turkey protects ISIS, we protect Turkey. I don't see how we are on the right side here.

A helicopter on a rescue mission was also destroyed by the terrorists with an American supplied TOW missile after making an emergency landing.

Well said Sir. Turkey may be a NATO member, but they are not friends to the West. Russia is a good guy here.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: chrisri
Originally Posted By: Alfred_B
Turkey protects ISIS, we protect Turkey. I don't see how we are on the right side here.

A helicopter on a rescue mission was also destroyed by the terrorists with an American supplied TOW missile after making an emergency landing.

Well said Sir. Turkey may be a NATO member, but they are not friends to the West. Russia is a good guy here.


Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.

Turkey was a lot worse before the reforms of Ataturk. They're probably the most modern and progressive of the Middle East nations.

Turkey will always have a soft spot in the U S Government's heart for making a home for our Air Force, the SR-71 Blackbird, and our nuclear missiles. These, of course made the Soviet Union sleep a little more uncomfortably every night for decades as they watched our military jets fly with impunity over their territory.

Naturally, Turkey spent decades with Soviet nuclear targeters, guns, tanks, and other ordinance pointed at it for the very same reason, so there is very little love lost between Russia and the Turks.

If Russia violated Turk airspace, forget them. They shot down everything that flew into their airspace, and even killed a U2 pilot over Cuba. They also shot down plenty of Israeli planes during the Yom Kippur War, which was all none of their business.

 

[chrisri]

DoubleWasp, I don't like Russia at all, trust me. As you probably know in the 50a they had plans to invade Yugoslavia, because we said no to their bolshevism.

Asad is what it is. A dictator. A dictator that kept peace in a country with million tribes. Same with Gaddafi in Libya. Yes, in those countries their was no democracy in a western way, but we all have to understand that this people aren't yet capable to live in a modern societies.
Asad kept Syrians out of Europe, Gaddafi did the same with sub-Saharian African. That is what matters to me.
USA government destroyed those societies in search for cheap oil. War on terrorism and bringing democracy to the middle east is a joke.
Can you count in how many military conflicts were US involved in the last 50 years? Non of on the American soil. All in the name of exporting "democracy".

 

[dishdude]

Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.



Are there any good guys in the Middle East?

 

[IndyIan]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.



Are there any good guys in the Middle East?

Just the average joe refugee trying to leave...

 

[Alfred_B]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.



Are there any good guys in the Middle East?


I just don't get the vitriol against Assad. Yes, he did some bad things when he cooperated with the CIA on the extraordinary renditions of Al Qaeda suspects but other than that, he has guaranteed gender equality, religious freedoms, etc.

The only reason we want to get rid of him is to install a puppet regime so that a gas pipeline can be built from Qatar to Turkey that foreign companies can own.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.


Are there any good guys in the Middle East?


I would say Israel since without our billions in $$$$ help..... that country would NOT be on any map.

 

[Merkava_4]

What bothers me the most about this incident is those rebels shooting the pilots while they were still parachuting to the ground. And if that wasn't enough, they had to destroy the helicopter carrying the troops on their way to rescue the pilots. Those rebels are a bunch of chicken chit idiots with no sense of war ethics.

 

[Al]

Originally Posted By: Alfred_B

The only reason we want to get rid of him is to install a puppet regime so that a gas pipeline can be built from Qatar to Turkey that foreign companies can own.

Other than the fact that he committed atrocities and War crimes against his own people..causing most of the Arab States and most Western Countries to try to get rid of him..he is a really nice guy..the kind you would want to invite to your Thanksgiving meal.

 

[Bluestream]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What bothers me the most about this incident is those rebels shooting the pilots while they were still parachuting to the ground. And if that wasn't enough, they had to destroy the helicopter carrying the troops on their way to rescue the pilots. Those rebels are a bunch of chicken chit idiots with no sense of war ethics.


Agreed! Shooting at that pilot who posed no threat was reprehensible.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What bothers me the most about this incident is those rebels shooting the pilots while they were still parachuting to the ground. And if that wasn't enough, they had to destroy the helicopter carrying the troops on their way to rescue the pilots. Those rebels are a bunch of chicken chit idiots with no sense of war ethics.


Agreed! Shooting at that pilot who posed no threat was reprehensible.



REALLY?

It's war dude. They try to kill you....you try to kill them. You think we are dealing with a civilized enemy or something? There are plenty of uncivilized things almost everybody did during the Second World war.

 

[LoneRanger]

Not true the comment about everybody doing barbaric things in WWII. True, there were incidents, like the Malmedy massacre of captured allied troops by the Axis forces, and other things but in general surrendering forces on both sides were given quarter. And probably yes there were some things that happened on an individual basis by some soldiers on all sides but I would refrain from painting so broadly with the "almost everybody" generalization.

 

[CKN]

Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Not true the comment about everybody doing barbaric things in WWII. True, there were incidents, like the Malmedy massacre of captured allied troops by the Axis forces, and other things but in general surrendering forces on both sides were given quarter. And probably yes there were some things that happened on an individual basis by some soldiers on all sides but I would refrain from painting so broadly with the "almost everybody" generalization.



Perhaps a bad choice of words. Maybe a better choice would have been all sides, meaning Germans, Japanese, etc.,

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: LoneRanger
Not true the comment about everybody doing barbaric things in WWII. True, there were incidents, like the Malmedy massacre of captured allied troops by the Axis forces, and other things but in general surrendering forces on both sides were given quarter. And probably yes there were some things that happened on an individual basis by some soldiers on all sides but I would refrain from painting so broadly with the "almost everybody" generalization.



Perhaps a bad choice of words. Maybe a better choice would have been all sides, meaning Germans, Japanese, etc.,


During WW2, the Japanese were well known to do this. The Germans did have a few cases...but it was generally regarded as something you just didn't do as once a pilot is out of his aircraft...he is out of the fight.
I have heard that we Americans rarely did it and it was NOT an accepted practice...unless (and this is just what I recall reading) the parachutist was a German jet fighter pilot (ME-262). I don't remember why that was though....or if it was even a fact.

 

[dirtydannyd]

Originally Posted By: DBMaster
Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Remember ISIS is a product of the USA.


It's not very often I see it stated this way, but there you go.


Shhhhhh... You're not allowed to say that.



Thread to be blocked in
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[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: DoubleWasp

Don't look at this situation as black and white. Russia is backing the bad guy in Syria, and we're backing the other bad guys.


Are there any good guys in the Middle East?


I would say Israel since without our billions in $$$$ help..... that country would NOT be on any map.


I don't see how that makes them "good" versus being a welfare/parasite taking US government aid... the same kind that many on here would look to cut off if it were a neighbor living in this country. Compounded by the fact that any formal (non-private) aid is purely debt on our taxpayers and our children, and meanwhile, the #1 taker of US IP is who? Not China... so guess.

Plus look at the strife caused by their, amongst others' existence over there. That's not meant to be anti-semitic, but rather just an observation of the destabilization that a third warring faction over there has caused.

No matter how anyone wants to play any group as a victim or whatever else, I can't say that there is anyone good over there. There are plenty of good individuals, but everything is so mixed up and broken that you can't really make boundaries of enemy factions as good and bad, especially when outside forces have used them all for proxies over the last 50+ years, making matters worse.

Hate to say it or type it, but Europe had hundreds of years of war and killing, America had its own civil war. Maybe its best to remove the nukes, remove the chem/bio/etc. and let it be fought out and new lines drawn by the victors without third parties trying to profit from the region, its resources or its people. A horrid thought, but perhaps its human nature and needs to just get to that? I hate to have written that, but maybe its so, if past human history is any indicator?

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: CKN
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
What bothers me the most about this incident is those rebels shooting the pilots while they were still parachuting to the ground. And if that wasn't enough, they had to destroy the helicopter carrying the troops on their way to rescue the pilots. Those rebels are a bunch of chicken chit idiots with no sense of war ethics.


Agreed! Shooting at that pilot who posed no threat was reprehensible.



REALLY?

It's war dude. They try to kill you....you try to kill them. You think we are dealing with a civilized enemy or something? There are plenty of uncivilized things almost everybody did during the Second World war.


Actually, its not formal war. One nation has not declared war on the other AFAIK, and as such, it is even more odd and difficult to decipher actions... You have a criminal, ad hoc state with their own informal doctrine which is not covered by any standard rules of war.

Correct me if Im wrong here...

But that means that the barbaric behaviors are both more understandable and more justified, though every bit as horrible. Its like those who claim that criminals in the USA will kill everyone in a home invasion so there's no witnesses. Its a level of horrible human action definable as a crime, as war, as anything else. Just people seeking a low that humanity as a whole has always bounced off of throughout time, and is doing again...

 

[GiveMeAVowel]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Turkey is a member of NATO. Remember ISIS is a product of the USA.


Exactly....and as if US and it's allies don't invade the airspace of sovereign nations?

If anyone is the good guy in this fight Russia is, it is actually trying to destroy the Israeli Secret Intelligence Service once and for all.