Russian plane down

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The Russians are angry. I don't blame them. The fact that Turkey is a part of NATO is troubling. Remember which band of Mensa candidates booed through the moment of silence for the murdered French civilians and ask yourself whose side they are really on.


Turkey joined NATO when it was not a Sharia State, which is why I have mixed feelings about supporting Turkey.

I did however think it was interesting to see an advanced multi-engine Russian Fighter get shot down a 70's technology single engine fighter.

 

[Shannow]

Molakule, well stated, and both points reflect my ponderings on the issue.

 

[fdcg27]

Has it occurred to anyone that Turkey may have been quietly encouraged to do what it did?
Putin is due a serious humbling, as this was.
The two pilots were participating in an act of war, not a training mission, so the risk was theirs to take.
They freely violated Turkish airspace and continued to do so despite being told to leave.
Turkey is a NATO member, with all that goes along with that.
The US will not allow any Russian retaliation against Turkey.
If the JV Turkish air force could bring down a Russian jet, imagine what some state of the art Western aircraft could do.
In addition to the loss of many more aircraft, Putin is well aware that the current sanctions junior regime could be considerably amplified.
Russia would then cut natural gas exports to the EU?
Doubtful, since they badly need the hard currency income.
Russia is as much a loud-mouthed paper tiger as the old USSR was and it's not as though Putin would launch a nuclear exchange over this.

 

[wrcsixeight]

The Small Spit of land the Turks claimed the Russians were flying over is a few miles wide, with Syria on both sides.

How could they possibly give 10 warnings in 5 minutes when the piece of Turkish airspace the su-24 was crossing over would take probably less than a minute.

There is a whole bunch of stuff not making sense with this encounter.

 

[zuluplus30]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I did however think it was interesting to see an advanced multi-engine Russian Fighter get shot down a 70's technology single engine fighter.


These were not run-of-the-mill Vipers. F16C Block 50+ models just delivered to Turkey less than 1 year ago.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
The Small Spit of land the Turks claimed the Russians were flying over is a few miles wide, with Syria on both sides.

How could they possibly give 10 warnings in 5 minutes when the piece of Turkish airspace the su-24 was crossing over would take probably less than a minute.

There is a whole bunch of stuff not making sense with this encounter.


Ahmmm, 2 warnings per minute? or one every 30 seconds, it would be easily done; or one warning every 6 seconds? I heard the warnings on video and it took the Turk air space controller 4 seconds to make the warning.

I agree we don't have all the info nor do we know all intentions.

However, Russia HAS been violating their airspace for some time and I guess the Truks finally got p***d.

 

[dgunay]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Has it occurred to anyone that Turkey may have been quietly encouraged to do what it did?
Putin is due a serious humbling, as this was.
The two pilots were participating in an act of war, not a training mission, so the risk was theirs to take.
They freely violated Turkish airspace and continued to do so despite being told to leave.
Turkey is a NATO member, with all that goes along with that.
The US will not allow any Russian retaliation against Turkey.
If the JV Turkish air force could bring down a Russian jet, imagine what some state of the art Western aircraft could do.
In addition to the loss of many more aircraft, Putin is well aware that the current sanctions junior regime could be considerably amplified.
Russia would then cut natural gas exports to the EU?
Doubtful, since they badly need the hard currency income.
Russia is as much a loud-mouthed paper tiger as the old USSR was and it's not as though Putin would launch a nuclear exchange over this.


Turkish pilots are well-trained, whereas Russians were even unable to sustain air superiority against Georgia in 2008.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
The Russians are angry. I don't blame them. The fact that Turkey is a part of NATO is troubling. Remember which band of Mensa candidates booed through the moment of silence for the murdered French civilians and ask yourself whose side they are really on.


Turkey joined NATO when it was not a Sharia State, which is why I have mixed feelings about supporting Turkey.

I did however think it was interesting to see an advanced multi-engine Russian Fighter get shot down a 70's technology single engine fighter.


it's a 1971 bomber though...

 

[Jetronic]

I absolutely agree that every country has a right to defend it's airspace and shoot down intruders.

But I also feel that in this case it's an excuse, and not a reason....

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I did however think it was interesting to see an advanced multi-engine Russian Fighter get shot down a 70's technology single engine fighter.


You have that backwards.

The SU-24 Fencer is an old airplane that has only recently had updates since it first flew in the late 1960s. It has some good gear, a wide variety of weapons, long range, good payload, but it's a medium bomber.

Not a fighter.

The Turkish F-16s have all been upgraded to the block 50 configuration.

Phased array radar, new mission computers, new engine, helmet mounted cueing, new weapons, including AIM-9X, which was likely used to down the SU-24. The most advanced US fighter technology and weaponry for that airframe.

A formidable fighter.

 

[grampi]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
The Small Spit of land the Turks claimed the Russians were flying over is a few miles wide, with Syria on both sides.

How could they possibly give 10 warnings in 5 minutes when the piece of Turkish airspace the su-24 was crossing over would take probably less than a minute.

There is a whole bunch of stuff not making sense with this encounter.


I don't think the 10 warnings came from this one incident...I think they were all on separate occasions...

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: Astro14
Originally Posted By: MolaKule

I did however think it was interesting to see an advanced multi-engine Russian Fighter get shot down a 70's technology single engine fighter.


You have that backwards.

The SU-24 Fencer is an old airplane that has only recently had updates since it first flew in the late 1960s. It has some good gear, a wide variety of weapons, long range, good payload, but it's a medium bomber.

Not a fighter.

The Turkish F-16s have all been upgraded to the block 50 configuration.

Phased array radar, new mission computers, new engine, helmet mounted cueing, new weapons, including AIM-9X, which was likely used to down the SU-24. The most advanced US fighter technology and weaponry for that airframe.

A formidable fighter.



OK, then I stand corrected because the first information I got was that is was an advanced MIG-XX model that was shot down.

Nothing like good ole US technology to get the job done.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: dgunay

Turkish pilots are well-trained, whereas Russians were even unable to sustain air superiority against Georgia in 2008.


The coolest fighter plane in the world is a dud with a poorly trained pilot.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

I think the Russians got plenty of warning... if your on board radar
picked up the incoming F16 and its missiles locked on you... what else
do you need to know that you're about to f art a war head???

 

[Jetronic]

IR lock?

forward looking radar and being attacked from the rear?

the patrolling planes are your allies?

 

[Oldmoparguy1]

I heard a news report that these air incursions have been going on for several months and complaints were being made through diplomatic channels.

 

[Jetronic]

They are happening both ways, and Turkey even flew over Greek airspace, but have stopped after this incident... I suppose they're afraid they gave the Greeks an idea and excuse...

 

[dgunay]

Originally Posted By: Jetronic
They are happening both ways, and Turkey even flew over Greek airspace


The problem is, Greece claims of 10 nautical miles airspace, but it's actually 6 nautical miles for both sides.

Greece should demilitarize the Aegean islands according to the Paris treaty, instead of complaining about their neighbors actions.

All they do is complaining, whining and blaming others for their mistakes. They even blame Germany for the Greek economic crisis.

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Originally Posted By: Astro14

Russian aircraft have NOT violated our airspace.

Ever.

They have flown close to our coast, in international airspace.

They have flown over our forces. In international airspace.

They have harassed, annoyed, irritated and attempted to incite our forces.

But they haven't violated our national sovereignty.

An airplane in your airspace is the same as a ship in your waters, or a soldier on your


What about the 92 Open Skies treaty??? which allows member nations to overfly other
nations as a trust building and mutual understanding exercise... the United States allows
Russia and other nations to overfly in surveillance aircraft our most secret bases,
including Groom Lake aka Area 51...

http://www.state.gov/t/avc/trty/102337.htm

 

[Jetronic]

It's getting more interesting.

The turks are now blaming the government opposition of having ordered the shoot down...

First version there was an order from a member of parliament (forgot his name, but close to Erdogan), then the kill went autonomous because the orger couldn't have been given during the 17seconds of air space violation and now it was a plot by the opposition to disturb turkish/russian relations...

back pedalling?