How to prove shop used wrong atf
- Thread starter Mrsandman
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Bummer four thousand miles out of warranty
MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Can we tell if the shop used the right atf?
Does the shop ticket indicate what fluid they used?
How long ago was the fluid changed?
Is there any fluid in the transmission?
It cannot be determined without an expensive analysis.
Call the shop and have them work with you and her on this situation.
Can we tell if the shop used the right atf?
Does the shop ticket indicate what fluid they used?
How long ago was the fluid changed?
Is there any fluid in the transmission?
It cannot be determined without an expensive analysis.
Call the shop and have them work with you and her on this situation.
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One of the many reasons why I kind've believe the old myth (or fact?) that if it hasn't been changed in a long time,leave it alone. Same exact thing happened to my Olds Trofeo and gf's Mustang. Both cars had over 100,000 miles,changed the atf,days later the tranny goes out.
MolaKule
Staff member
I still believe that changing out the ATF initially at 10k and using 30k OCI's thereafter is a good preventative maintenance practice. Fluid is a low cost item compared to an AT rebuild or replacement.
Sure, if the fluid is left in too long, then changing the fluid out at a high mileage point has the potential to dislodge a clutch particle and restrict a valve or actuator.
However, in this case, we have no definitive proof that the fluid change-out caused the problem. It could have well been a defect waiting to cause a failure.
Just not enough data to arrive at a conclusion as yet.
Hopefully, the OP will provide more info.
Sure, if the fluid is left in too long, then changing the fluid out at a high mileage point has the potential to dislodge a clutch particle and restrict a valve or actuator.
However, in this case, we have no definitive proof that the fluid change-out caused the problem. It could have well been a defect waiting to cause a failure.
Just not enough data to arrive at a conclusion as yet.
Hopefully, the OP will provide more info.
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A proper repair order will list the fluid type used. A 2014 Explorer would use Mercon LV. This is a case where the fluid being licensed for Mercon LV and not "recommended for" or "suitable for" regardless of outside BITOG nerd knowledge is key.
64K on a 2014? Holy cow, your sister gets around!
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I still believe that changing out the ATF initially at 10k and using 30k OCI's thereafter is a good preventative maintenance practice. Fluid is a low cost item compared to an AT rebuild or replacement.
My feelings exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!
I still believe that changing out the ATF initially at 10k and using 30k OCI's thereafter is a good preventative maintenance practice. Fluid is a low cost item compared to an AT rebuild or replacement.
My feelings exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!
MolaKule
Staff member
As I stated in another thread:
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The 100,000 mile ATF FF statement in the owner's manual is a wet dream unless you drive under 5,000 miles per year and drive like this 90 year old gray-hair in front of me.
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The 100,000 mile ATF FF statement in the owner's manual is a wet dream unless you drive under 5,000 miles per year and drive like this 90 year old gray-hair in front of me.
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I don't believe the claim that if atf is left there for long while and not to change [censored]. If it was me, I'd get the car to dealer, open the trans pan and do a thorough exam. It is likely that the o ring on the atf intake tube was missing or not installed properly, as a result, the trans is getting air and atf mixture. That can destroy any trans in a short run.
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
One of the many reasons why I kind've believe the old myth (or fact?) that if it hasn't been changed in a long time,leave it alone. Same exact thing happened to my Olds Trofeo and gf's Mustang. Both cars had over 100,000 miles,changed the atf,days later the tranny goes out.
The OP car is only a year old with just over 60k miles. I'd assume those are highway, unless it's a taxi or something.
So it's not really a data point to substantiate the old "myth".
One of the many reasons why I kind've believe the old myth (or fact?) that if it hasn't been changed in a long time,leave it alone. Same exact thing happened to my Olds Trofeo and gf's Mustang. Both cars had over 100,000 miles,changed the atf,days later the tranny goes out.
The OP car is only a year old with just over 60k miles. I'd assume those are highway, unless it's a taxi or something.
So it's not really a data point to substantiate the old "myth".
The shop would have to really mess up to kill the transmission with a fluid change.
This is getting off-topic, but my car had one change at 100k so I don't believe the myth. Maybe in the 70's or 80's it was true. Have fun constantly changing your tranny fluid.
This is getting off-topic, but my car had one change at 100k so I don't believe the myth. Maybe in the 70's or 80's it was true. Have fun constantly changing your tranny fluid.
Yeah, I got mine at 50k miles and only swapped around 70k miles and no issues... i think we are jumping to conclusion assuming its linked to trans fluid.
Yeah, no matter what goes wrong with anything mechanical, it was always the fault of the last guy that worked on it--NOT.
MolaKule
Staff member
Originally Posted By: brages
So it's not really a data point to substantiate the old "myth".
For sure.
Just to clarify, the OP said his sister's car had 64,000 miles on it and it was a 2014.
He didn't say if his sister bought it new or if she bought it with high mileage, like she could have purchased it at 50k from an off-lease and put 14k on it herself.
I hope this is more than just a drive-by question.
So it's not really a data point to substantiate the old "myth".
For sure.
Just to clarify, the OP said his sister's car had 64,000 miles on it and it was a 2014.
He didn't say if his sister bought it new or if she bought it with high mileage, like she could have purchased it at 50k from an off-lease and put 14k on it herself.
I hope this is more than just a drive-by question.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I still believe that changing out the ATF initially at 10k and using 30k OCI's thereafter is a good preventative maintenance practice. Fluid is a low cost item compared to an AT rebuild or replacement.
Sure, if the fluid is left in too long, then changing the fluid out at a high mileage point has the potential to dislodge a clutch particle and restrict a valve or actuator.
However, in this case, we have no definitive proof that the fluid change-out caused the problem. It could have well been a defect waiting to cause a failure.
Just not enough data to arrive at a conclusion as yet.
Hopefully, the OP will provide more info.
Boy-what a waste of money. Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years? You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
With a transmission going out at 64,000 miles-there are other things going on we are not aware of, be it incorrect fluid or something else.
I still believe that changing out the ATF initially at 10k and using 30k OCI's thereafter is a good preventative maintenance practice. Fluid is a low cost item compared to an AT rebuild or replacement.
Sure, if the fluid is left in too long, then changing the fluid out at a high mileage point has the potential to dislodge a clutch particle and restrict a valve or actuator.
However, in this case, we have no definitive proof that the fluid change-out caused the problem. It could have well been a defect waiting to cause a failure.
Just not enough data to arrive at a conclusion as yet.
Hopefully, the OP will provide more info.
Boy-what a waste of money. Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years? You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
With a transmission going out at 64,000 miles-there are other things going on we are not aware of, be it incorrect fluid or something else.
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MolaKule
Staff member
Quote:
Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years?
Yes I do. I formulate ATF's, MTF's, engine oils, gear lubes, and specialty lubricants so I know every component involved in ATF chemistry.
Quote:
You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
Spending more money, yes, but your last sentence is disputed.
100,000 mile FF is pure marketing hype and is a wet dream and only valid if you drive 5000 miles a years at less than 55 mph.
The whole 100,000 mile FF is an attempt to convince the owner or prospective owner that he can avoid some lifetime maintenance costs but doesn't tell him of increased wear and potential failure.
Quote:
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
Visual observation tells you anything about wear, only if it MIGHT be oxidized.
Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years?
Yes I do. I formulate ATF's, MTF's, engine oils, gear lubes, and specialty lubricants so I know every component involved in ATF chemistry.
Quote:
You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
Spending more money, yes, but your last sentence is disputed.
100,000 mile FF is pure marketing hype and is a wet dream and only valid if you drive 5000 miles a years at less than 55 mph.
The whole 100,000 mile FF is an attempt to convince the owner or prospective owner that he can avoid some lifetime maintenance costs but doesn't tell him of increased wear and potential failure.
Quote:
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
Visual observation tells you anything about wear, only if it MIGHT be oxidized.
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I'm not sure what a '14 Explorer has, but isn't it pretty conventional? Not a sensitive CVT, but something that likely relatively tolerant to fluids "close" to spec.
What is "dead on the side of the road"? Idles but won't rev? Only creeps in gear? Won't shift out of park? Any chance it's a throttle position sensor, or blown u-joint, or anything of a myriad of reasons why a vehicle physically won't move anymore?
What is "dead on the side of the road"? Idles but won't rev? Only creeps in gear? Won't shift out of park? Any chance it's a throttle position sensor, or blown u-joint, or anything of a myriad of reasons why a vehicle physically won't move anymore?
MolaKule
Staff member
Should be: Visual observation tells you nothing about wear, only if it MIGHT be oxidized.
Quote:
What is "dead on the side of the road"? Idles but won't rev? Only creeps in gear? Won't shift out of park? Any chance it's a throttle position sensor, or blown u-joint, or anything of a myriad of reasons why a vehicle physically won't move anymore?
We don't know. The poster left us hanging.
Quote:
What is "dead on the side of the road"? Idles but won't rev? Only creeps in gear? Won't shift out of park? Any chance it's a throttle position sensor, or blown u-joint, or anything of a myriad of reasons why a vehicle physically won't move anymore?
We don't know. The poster left us hanging.
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years?
Yes I do. I formulate ATF's, MTF's, engine oils, gear lubes, and specialty lubricants so I know every component involved in ATF chemistry.
Quote:
You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
Spending more money, yes, but your last sentence is disputed.
100,000 mile FF is pure marketing hype and is a wet dream and only valid if you drive 5000 miles a years at less than 55 mph.
The whole 100,000 mile FF is an attempt to convince the owner or prospective owner that he can avoid some lifetime maintenance costs but doesn't tell him of increased wear and potential failure.
Quote:
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
Visual observation tells you anything about wear, only if it MIGHT be oxidized.
Nobody said take the fluid out to 100K. And your right-I wish I would have tested the Dex6 at the 50K interval-it would have been interesting. First transmission change for most at 50,000miles. If you formulate fluids-you should know your recommendations are OVERKILL. If not-please review with us how the New Fluids are not that much better than those of 20 years ago and how you do really need frequent change intervals, with the first one at 10K then the next 30K later.
Quote:
Do you have ANY IDEA how far transmission lubricants have come in the last 20 years?
Yes I do. I formulate ATF's, MTF's, engine oils, gear lubes, and specialty lubricants so I know every component involved in ATF chemistry.
Quote:
You are right that fluid is low cost compared to a transmission. But your recommendations will result in spending more money on fluid, and the transmission's life will not be prolonged if you took the fluid out to 50,000 miles on most vehicles.
Spending more money, yes, but your last sentence is disputed.
100,000 mile FF is pure marketing hype and is a wet dream and only valid if you drive 5000 miles a years at less than 55 mph.
The whole 100,000 mile FF is an attempt to convince the owner or prospective owner that he can avoid some lifetime maintenance costs but doesn't tell him of increased wear and potential failure.
Quote:
I drained the Dex 6 out of my Silverado at 50,000 miles (with half of those miles towing a 5,500 pound trailer) and visually it STILL looked good.
Visual observation tells you anything about wear, only if it MIGHT be oxidized.
Nobody said take the fluid out to 100K. And your right-I wish I would have tested the Dex6 at the 50K interval-it would have been interesting. First transmission change for most at 50,000miles. If you formulate fluids-you should know your recommendations are OVERKILL. If not-please review with us how the New Fluids are not that much better than those of 20 years ago and how you do really need frequent change intervals, with the first one at 10K then the next 30K later.
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