Kawasaki changed their oil recommendations

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I finally got to a technical person at Kawasaki to ask about there oils. These were the questions I asked:

Why does Kawasaki do not give there oil the latest API SN rating?
Because of the lower Zinc and Phosphorous level requirement in those rated oils. They use flat tappets in there engines.

Does Kawasaki have any issues or concerns with lower zinc requirements in the API SM and SN ratings? Basically answered above.

If so, what is the minimum requirements for zinc?
1000 ppm

My conclusion: So any oil at there viscosity requirements and at or over there minimum zinc and phosphorous levels would be good. By saying that an oil is to meet API SL is not a good thing on there part, because your later rated oils are backwards compatible, so in a sense they are saying you can use the latest rated oils, if they know it or not.
 
But the Kaw tech is not considering moly, titanium, etc friction modifiers that have been incorporated into many modern oils. That shows a limited mindset of the Kaw tech... still using a ZDDP mindset. While the Schaeffer 5w30 I use in some applications has less than 1000 ppm zinc (857 ppm) it also has a moly count of 309 ppm. The PYB 10w30, according to PQIA, has a Zinc level of 894, but is also has a moly level of 192. There is more than one way (ZDDP) to skin a cat.

John Deere lives on Kawasaki engines for a wide variety of their stuff. Their Turf-Gard oils (5w30, 10w30, 10w40) they use and recommend in them meet API SN. Probably ought to send in a virgin sample on some of it to see if the Zinc is 1000 ppm or higher. I serious doubt it, as one of the specs to API SN is a reduction of ZDDP to protect cat converters.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
But the Kaw tech is not considering moly, titanium, etc friction modifiers that have been incorporated into many modern oils. That shows a limited mindset of the Kaw tech... still using a ZDDP mindset. While the Schaeffer 5w30 I use in some applications has less than 1000 ppm zinc (857 ppm) it also has a moly count of 309 ppm. The PYB 10w30, according to PQIA, has a Zinc level of 894, but is also has a moly level of 192. There is more than one way (ZDDP) to skin a cat.

John Deere lives on Kawasaki engines for a wide variety of their stuff. Their Turf-Gard oils (5w30, 10w30, 10w40) they use and recommend in them meet API SN. Probably ought to send in a virgin sample on some of it to see if the Zinc is 1000 ppm or higher. I serious doubt it, as one of the specs to API SN is a reduction of ZDDP to protect cat converters.

I thought of that maybe they are making too big of a deal out of that. I asked about the replacement anti wear additive and they claim they don't do no good. He told me that zinc act likes a sacrificial metal. Yes, if John Deere's 5w30 and 10w30 meets API SN, they would have to less than a 1000 ppm of zinc and phosphorous.
 
Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
Yeah, I thought the Kaw tech had a bulb burnt out. He doesn't have a clue how moly and titanium work, to make a myopic statement that they do no good. All one would have to do is point him to these three articles...

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/


Wow, that is good to know. Why do guys with high performance engines, with flat tappet cams say the lower zinc levels wear there cams out? How do you find the moly levels, and other anti wear additives on motor oil? How does zinc, moly, and the others work together if more than one is used?

As much as I like Kawasaki engines, there motor oil recommendations is one place that does disappoint me about them, in showing there ignorance. By saying to use an old API rated oil is not good enough, because the newest rating is backwards compatible. If a person would take Kawasaki to court over an oil related failure and on there claim that you used the wrong API rated oil, the person could successfully win by showing the judge or jury that the latest API ratings are backwards compatible and therefore by saying to use an older API rated oil, the company is also are approving the use of the newer to the newest API rated oil, rather if they know it or not.

But then again, a court case like that will probably never happen, because it would be cheaper for Kawi to give another engine, instead of spend money on there lawyers.
 
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I also find it humorous that people think OPE manufacturers are going to be leading the way or following the "latest" oil tech.

It's OPE for [censored] sake... they use what "works" and has worked for years. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but don't expect them to be leading the way in the newest oil tech and specs. Their simple engines that generally don't run long (as compared to other applications) and are relatively inexpensive.

Oil related failures... never seen one or a documented case, other than hearsay. Engines don't die because the "wrong" spec of oil was used (any "modern" oil in the last 50+ years). They die due to oil starvation, low oil levels or gross neglect (i.e., lack of maintenance).
 
I can't find the actual amount of zinc that's in this new k-tech oil formulation? Anyone know?

the 10-40 ,and the 20-50 ?
 
Originally Posted By: lawnguy
I can't find the actual amount of zinc that's in this new k-tech oil formulation? Anyone know?

the 10-40 ,and the 20-50 ?


They have flat tappets, but aren't high compression engines. Only about 8.5:1 It's a CJ-4 oil so what ever the specs are for a CJ-4 formula oil. They took zinc out on this latest formula So most oils only have around 1200ppm zinc and like 1000ppm phosphorous. They make it up with moly and boron usually as the anti wear additives and magnesium to makeup for the lack of calcium, which are the detergents.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
I also find it humorous that people think OPE manufacturers are going to be leading the way or following the "latest" oil tech.

It's OPE for [censored] sake... they use what "works" and has worked for years. I'm not saying its right or wrong, but don't expect them to be leading the way in the newest oil tech and specs. Their simple engines that generally don't run long (as compared to other applications) and are relatively inexpensive.

Oil related failures... never seen one or a documented case, other than hearsay. Engines don't die because the "wrong" spec of oil was used (any "modern" oil in the last 50+ years). They die due to oil starvation, low oil levels or gross neglect (i.e., lack of maintenance).

Yeah, about over 90% of oil related failures, if not 99%, is going to be the lack of oil, than what type of oil. And no, I am not saying that OPE needs to be working on the latest oil tech. What I am saying is that OPE manufacturers need to keep there motor oil recommendations to whats commonly available. Sure, they can have whatever bottled oil they want, but all they recommend is API SF, SG, SH, SJ, or SL in there owners manual. What a waste of ink on old or obsolete API ratings. Its not about what works, its about what is revatively available today in motor oils that works.
 
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I have nearly 3,000 hours on a Kawasaki OPE engine... nothing but Rotella T 10w-30, changed every 125 hours on average, with a a $3.50 oil filter (either Puro Classic or MicroGard).

And I have no intention of doing anything different, anytime soon.

This isn't rocket science.
 
Originally Posted By: mrsilv04
I have nearly 3,000 hours on a Kawasaki OPE engine... nothing but Rotella T 10w-30, changed every 125 hours on average, with a a $3.50 oil filter (either Puro Classic or MicroGard).

And I have no intention of doing anything different, anytime soon.

This isn't rocket science.


AMEN!
How many times has it been said on this site, that OPE will run on almost any oil, if properly maintained oil level and changed once in a while is your regime.
I don't think Kawi changing their oil recommendations makes a big leap forward in technology. They probably had some young engineer who wanted to validate his paycheck, so he decided to update the info in the chart. Nothing on their is anything new, or even helpful, IMHO.
I'll stick with my previous thinking, HDEO 10W30 or 15W40, of almost any persuasion, changed regularly. I do like the piece of mind of higher zinc levels, can't hurt, even if there is better/newer technology. I have a 2010 B&S 27hp with Valvoline PB in it, and a 1979 Kohler 14hp with 10W30 Rotella in it for winter, both run great. I just don't see synthetic giving me any better protection, as I'm not willing to extend oil change intervals.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwpowere36m3
Like other "set" ways... high-levels of ZDDP is one of them.


Yes, this.

One of the cleanest looking and least worn engines I've ever torn down had just plain jane 10w30 conventional its whole life. The engine was only being cracked open because the crank shaft seal on the PTO side as well as the sump cover gasket were leaking. It even had the cross hatching still in the bore.

IMG_2462.jpg

IMG_2464.jpg
 
I have 3 qts of M1 0/40. Would you run this in your Kaw on a zero turn? I just hate the idea of such a weight spread for an air cool engine. It does get hot in the summer here in La.
 
Originally Posted By: passgas55
I have 3 qts of M1 0/40. Would you run this in your Kaw on a zero turn? I just hate the idea of such a weight spread for an air cool engine. It does get hot in the summer here in La.
I use 0w40 M1 in my John Deere with the Kaw motor. About 50 hours a year. This year I didn't change it as it still looks so good. The oil gets really hot but I have added an oil cooler.
 
M1 0w40 should be fine, just monitor the oil level. Not because it is 0w40, but because it is Mobil 1. I have found that for some reason Mobil 1 burns off a bit easier than other synthetics of the same weight in air cooled engines.
 
After looking at the chart again, I am definitely a fan of running the thickest oil allowed.
27.gif


I assume this would be for a mower? At that point, why not run a 20w50. Normally it is cheaper than more popular oils and I would never run the mower below 32*F (Assuming it wasn't fitted with a snow blower of course.)
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
M1 0w40 should be fine, just monitor the oil level. Not because it is 0w40, but because it is Mobil 1. I have found that for some reason Mobil 1 burns off a bit easier than other synthetics of the same weight in air cooled engines.


I had this issue with a yard vac engine with the traditional Tecumseh engine. Literally needed topped off after every other use with using M1. I assumed it just didnt like synthetic oil.

We have a mower with the same engine and it doesn't consume oil.. I use leftover PYB in it though.
 
Originally Posted By: dlundblad
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
M1 0w40 should be fine, just monitor the oil level. Not because it is 0w40, but because it is Mobil 1. I have found that for some reason Mobil 1 burns off a bit easier than other synthetics of the same weight in air cooled engines.


I had this issue with a yard vac engine with the traditional Tecumseh engine. Literally needed topped off after every other use with using M1. I assumed it just didnt like synthetic oil.

We have a mower with the same engine and it doesn't consume oil.. I use leftover PYB in it though.


I have been using M1 10-30 in OPE for 25 years and have never had that problem. I now have a 5 KW gen, pressure washer, and 21 HP Briggs in my Craftsman riding mower. In my mower I change oil and filter every 1 1/2 years, and the oil level doesn't drop below full. But then I start my engines off on M1 and never skip from one oil to another.
 
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