These new cars are getting to be to smart for me

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When I first started working on cars they were simple. Points closed up, plugs fouled, carb floats sank,plastic timing gears stripped etc.

Stuff like that.

I'm finding it harder and harder to diagnose the newer stuff.

IE: A good customer calls and says that her "ck gauges" light is on and that her ammeter is showing low voltage. She's driving an 04 dodge pickup. She gets to Barstow,ca and the truck dies.

Gets towed to me. Battery is dead. Sounds simple... Its not charging the battery.



I put the charger on the battery and send the Alternator out to be tested. AutoZone calls and says the Alternator test is inconclusive. He thinks it has a bad diode.

This means that it will charge but not like it should.

So I throw an Alternator on it. Truck wont run!

Now I check fuel pressure and its dead. So we pull the bed and put a pump in it which fixed it. truck started up and runs fine.

I asked some other shops and they all agree that the fuel pump shorted and confused the computer and it stopped sending a signal to the Alternator!

How am I supposed to figure that out?

The customer left unhappy. Does not understand why I put an Alternator on it when the fuel pump was what kept it from running.
 
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Had a 2000 Chrysler T&C Van. Computer and its low lead solder chapped my butt. Similar symptoms: on again, off again charging. No data at OBDII. Went around unplugging sensors in case one was dragging down the +5 or +8 volt busses. Wires metal fatigued and broke inside the insulation.



Your challenge for a good customer is to be emotionally on her side and communicate what the dopey engineers have done and how it's good for neither you nor her.
 
That's a good one for sure.

What's really odd is the fuel pump decided to die completely, only after a new alternator was put in.
 
The Chrysler vehicles of that era are really odd ...

My Cherokee had a bad battery. It would crank, but wouldn't fire ... unless I hooked it up to my car with jumper cables. As soon as I would unhook, it would die. Only tried that because someone told me to.

That battery went bad because the bad gauge cluster was turning on the rear window defrost while the vehicle was off.
 
Originally Posted By: Miller88
The Chrysler vehicles of that era are really odd ...

My Cherokee had a bad battery. It would crank, but wouldn't fire ... unless I hooked it up to my car with jumper cables. As soon as I would unhook, it would die. Only tried that because someone told me to.

That battery went bad because the bad gauge cluster was turning on the rear window defrost while the vehicle was off.
grin.gif
 
I agree with the comment about this era of Chrysler vehicles. I had a classmate in college with a 1999 Jeep GC that wouldn't start. She asked me to check it for her. The battery tested fine but still wouldn't start. The instrument panel gauges were moving in all sorts of funky ways with the battery connected. I couldn't get it started so she had it towed to a shop. After replacing the computer they later found out there was an issue with the brake light switch. The brake light switch had shorted out the old computer. For a well kept and maintained veh that thing was a total piece. Don't know how true this is but I went with her to the shop to pick it up once it was finished and they said Chrysler updated the computer in 2000 but it's not backwards compatible with the 1999's?
 
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It's likely that the fuel pump damaged the alternator. Had that happen to one of my 94 vans. Really flaky symptoms. Finally, random low fuel pressure causing the engine to stumble when accelerating. Replaced the alternator, the battery and the fuel pump. I still have an electrical issue of some kind.
 
Just a thought, is it possible that a marginal fuel pump was finished off under the strain of trying to run with low voltage? Being an '04, I'm guessing it has a lot of miles on it and maybe it was just time for both the alternator and the fuel pump to fail.

Sometimes running something with low voltage can be just as bad as running it with too much.
 
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Feedback loops are nasty, especially when you don't they exist.

It's good to publish stories like this. Many consumers have no idea what it's like to troubleshoot. Or that sometimes something else can fail exactly at the same time. Nothing like having multiple concurrent failures to make it interesting.
 
My cousin's 00 tahoe was sticking in gear for a long time, then it would shift hard. It would nearly stall out to upshift and sometimes get near 3k rpm (normally shifting at like 1500) with no load going downhill. I asked him if the tranny about to go belly up on him, he shrugged. A month or so later he swapped the alternator. Now the tranny acts like new again. Hate modern cars, GM found its way to the top of the list.
 
I saw a strange one like this on a friend's 2000 Camaro. Alternator flaked out in some way (still charged, but something was wrong, can't remember the details) and the car wouldn't start.

As in, the ECU wouldn't power the starter relay to allow cranking (like trying to start in gear with an auto). If you roll started it, it fired and ran and drove just fine, no indication anything was wrong. Replaced the alternator and it was perfectly fine.
 
The car manufacturers have determined that you need all these gadgets and features. Try to buy a simple car. Good luck.

Finding solid older cars, pre 75 for California smog exemption, and fixing them up to be daily drivers is becoming more popular among some of my friends. I just drove a 63 122 Volvo sedan that runs and looks like new, fixed up by a friend at work. It has completely rebuild drive line, suspension and electrical system, paint and interior. Everything works and it's easy to service and parts are cheap and available.

This car has inspired others and now the count among this circle of friends is I think, eleven vehicles. One is a 37 Plymouth, a 38 Chevy, a 74 Ford PU, a 63 Ford Fairlane, a 70 Ford Econoline with a 302 and a 3-speed stick, 50 Chevy PU, a 54 Chevy Surburban and a couple of others I can't recall.

I myself have my eyes open for a candidate because I'm done with the idea of buying a new or late model car. Because of upcoming smog legislation I may have to consider letting my 84 Civic go that I've owned since new. The complicated carb and vacuum plumbing is becoming a problem for replacement parts. A friend converted his Civic of the same model year with a Weber conversion kit and it passes smog based on the tail pipe test but fails because all the other plumbing was removed. Even though it passes the performance test and does not pollute the state will not give him a pass. He gave the car to a relative in Arizona.

People working in the system say that their job is enforcing laws and following the rules. Common sense and logic have nothing to do with their day to day activities and can do nothing but hurt them on their path toward retirement.
 
My sister's first car was a 1967 122s 4 door and mine was a 1968 2 door. (This was in the early to mid 90's)
Sweet looking rides. Slow as dirt, so perfect for 16 year olds. Never left me stranded. I do like my modern cars that start quickly and run reliably, though. (notice that my 'newest' is ten years old, still)

I do dread owning and maintaining something so new, I won't have the means to DIY as much as I can now.
 
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
The car manufacturers have determined that you need all these gadgets and features. Try to buy a simple car. Good luck.


I want to agree with you, but the majority (or all?) of the complains in this thread have been about critical parts: alt and fuel pumps, no start conditions because of either. Hardly a case of "the steering wheel heater quit and now the lane change collision avoidance system won't heat my coffee properly".

Quote:
Finding solid older cars, pre 75 for California smog exemption, and fixing them up to be daily drivers is becoming more popular among some of my friends. I just drove a 63 122 Volvo sedan that runs and looks like new, fixed up by a friend at work. It has completely rebuild drive line, suspension and electrical system, paint and interior. Everything works and it's easy to service and parts are cheap and available.

This car has inspired others and now the count among this circle of friends is I think, eleven vehicles. One is a 37 Plymouth, a 38 Chevy, a 74 Ford PU, a 63 Ford Fairlane, a 70 Ford Econoline with a 302 and a 3-speed stick, 50 Chevy PU, a 54 Chevy Surburban and a couple of others I can't recall.


I've thought of likewise, but I like modern sound deadner and reliability. Ok, if the vehicle was dirt simple then even I could fix it. As long as I had two or more of them that is. At that point though...

Plus, in this region all the old cars are gone, and it would cost a pretty penny to make an old one last here. And it'll still rot away.

Quote:
I myself have my eyes open for a candidate because I'm done with the idea of buying a new or late model car. Because of upcoming smog legislation I may have to consider letting my 84 Civic go that I've owned since new. The complicated carb and vacuum plumbing is becoming a problem for replacement parts. A friend converted his Civic of the same model year with a Weber conversion kit and it passes smog based on the tail pipe test but fails because all the other plumbing was removed. Even though it passes the performance test and does not pollute the state will not give him a pass. He gave the car to a relative in Arizona.

People working in the system say that their job is enforcing laws and following the rules. Common sense and logic have nothing to do with their day to day activities and can do nothing but hurt them on their path toward retirement.



Now I'd be sad to see your Civic go. It's been a real trouper. I hear your pain though, and often think about going pre-OBDII myself. I doubt the Northeast will go as far as visual inspections anytime soon--probably have another decade. So I keep thinking about 20 year old cars too.
 
The problem with new models is not that they are harder to diagnose, only that there are more systems to work through while doing the diagnosis.

IME the only reason to have a new car is if it's under full warranty (or a lease/courtesy car)

For simplicity, nothing beats older cars. A little bit of maintenance is all it takes to achieve headache free motoring nirvana
 
Originally Posted By: Chris142
Originally Posted By: Silverado12
What brand truck was it?
04 Dodge 1500 with a 3.7L v6


It probably doesn't make you feel any better but that truck is over a decade old!
smile.gif
 
I also am also old school when it comes to vehicles. Was a professional auto mechanic up till about 1980. Worked for a chrysler dealer, then a ford dealer, then my own shop for about 15 years. Then I needed to get lots more test equipment, and since my lawnmower sales and repair business was getting big, I just phased out auto repair. Just closed the lawn mower shop last month, and completely retired. (well mostly) I have a 2014 ford fusion S, the cheapest model without as much electronic [censored], I mean stuff.LOL It also has the 2.5 engine so no turbo or anything. If anything goes wrong with it now, it goes to the dealer, and after warranty is up, most likely anything other than normal maintenance will go to an independent shop. I also verry strongly considered getting an old car that was restored for my daily driver. I have a 65 mustang and a 50 ford also that are just show cars, with no nice features like a/c or even p/s or p/b.
 
It really boils down to needing more diagnostic equipment. I think simple OBDII readers don't really cut it for a shop anymore, you need the more advanced stuff that will read specific subsystems.

For Ford, there's software called Forscan which is free and will read more subsystems. I think someone was actually able to get new keys recognized by the car just using the software. Normally you'd have to go to the dealer for things like that.
 
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