Toyota Prius - A VVS Review
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Originally Posted By: dareo
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
Everything i read indicated 21.6 seats up 39.6 seats down for the 15 prius. 67.3ft is more than nearly every CUV out there, it can't be that big.
There is only one small serpentine belt on the new TSI engines.
Aisin makes the VW A/T but i got the manual. Sure i may have to replace a turbo someday (i plan to tune the ECU and add another 70hp) and clean out some DI intake deposits, but eventually a hybrid drivetrain will need some significant and specialist repairs, or a costly battery replacement.
I think i will still be ahead in whole life maintenance costs.
Even if the Golf costs me 2x as much to drive it is 2x as fun and more useful in my opinion.
The new MBQ platform allows nearly any interchange you want. if my trans goes our or my engine blows up i should be able to bolt right in anything else from the MBQ platform. Wrecked GTI swap? OK! A prius will need exact parts and further skills to install them.
There is only one small serpentine belt on the new TSI engines.
Aisin makes the VW A/T but i got the manual. Sure i may have to replace a turbo someday (i plan to tune the ECU and add another 70hp) and clean out some DI intake deposits, but eventually a hybrid drivetrain will need some significant and specialist repairs, or a costly battery replacement.
I think i will still be ahead in whole life maintenance costs.
Even if the Golf costs me 2x as much to drive it is 2x as fun and more useful in my opinion.
The new MBQ platform allows nearly any interchange you want. if my trans goes our or my engine blows up i should be able to bolt right in anything else from the MBQ platform. Wrecked GTI swap? OK! A prius will need exact parts and further skills to install them.
Im 6ft6 and the new Taurus has less legroom thanks to the brilliant design of their giant dash. Id drive a Prius over it any day, better design and cheaper on gas. Id choose a new Impala with the V6 over a Prius though if I didnt have to pay gas or long term maintenance
Drove a GMC Jimmy for a few years, a 2002 GMC Envoy for 8 years and 170,000 miles. Bought my first (used) Prius in 2012, didnt think I would like it "at all". Ended up LOVING IT and trading it this past February for my Gen3 2012 Prius in my sig line.
Opinions of the Prius are just that - opinions. Some like it, some dont. I am personally a lead foot and just LOVE racing away from the green light, as the person next to me thinks Im going to be clogging up the lane going 20 under the speed limit, LOL. Oh, and I still average 49mpg combined.
With that being said, its like owning the Envoy for all those years has been erased from my memory because I was constantly working on it, I mean even when it was new. Both Prius have needed absolutely nothing besides oil changes, wipers and tire rotations. And I dont know what people are talking about, my 2012 Prius is quiet and accelerates fine.
Opinions of the Prius are just that - opinions. Some like it, some dont. I am personally a lead foot and just LOVE racing away from the green light, as the person next to me thinks Im going to be clogging up the lane going 20 under the speed limit, LOL. Oh, and I still average 49mpg combined.
With that being said, its like owning the Envoy for all those years has been erased from my memory because I was constantly working on it, I mean even when it was new. Both Prius have needed absolutely nothing besides oil changes, wipers and tire rotations. And I dont know what people are talking about, my 2012 Prius is quiet and accelerates fine.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: dareo
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
The Prius has a planetary transmission, not a CVT. It does not shift gears and has no friction devices, belts or other such wear items. It does not even have a reverse gear.
Originally Posted By: dareo
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
The Prius has a planetary transmission, not a CVT. It does not shift gears and has no friction devices, belts or other such wear items. It does not even have a reverse gear.
Definitely a driving appliance but a decent one that sips fuel for sure. My only qualm are the stupid looks of car otherwise a wonderful rental for its size class.
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: dareo
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
The Prius has a planetary transmission, not a CVT. It does not shift gears and has no friction devices, belts or other such wear items. It does not even have a reverse gear.
Thanks for catching that. Was mixing it up with my hybrid at work.
So, yes, even more simple and reliable.
I just wish they could make the Prius as fun to drive as a sportwagon or similar vehicle. Supposedly the 2016 is better, maybe as "fun" as a Camry now?
I'm still waiting for a hybrid or diesel CUV that can pull 40 mpg and not cost $40k+. If the Prius V had some beefy suspension and ground clearance or something like that.
Its a bummer to have to take a CUV/SUV/Truck on long road trips b/c after 6+ hours of driving, you need ground clearance for the last 2 miles to a campsite. 99% of the miles were inefficient and better suited to a TDI/Prius on the drive.
Originally Posted By: surfstar
Originally Posted By: dareo
Crunching the numbers on the '15 prius, we have 48 mpg highway, 39.6 CuFt max cargo and about 10 second 0-60, and only automatic trans. Base Model MSRP w/destination $25035 (not sure how negotiable Toyota is on these)
The Golf Sportwagen MT i just got: 36 mpg highway, 66.5 CuFt cargo, 0-60 in the 6.8 to 7.0 range, MSRP w/Dest $22880 (i paid 4k under msrp)
Today, regular gas is $1.96, and assuming we pay sticker for each car, that is about 1100 gallons of extra gas i can buy for my Golf.
Using all highway economy numbers that is roughly 150,000 miles before the prius has saves me any money. It has however hauled less stuff, accelerated much slower, and this is all subjective but not looked as good.
Prius numbers add up for city drivers who for some reason can't drive a full EV like a Nissan Leaf.
Hmm, I see "Cargo Volume with Rear Seat Down, 67.3 ft³"
and currently you can get deals on 2015s as the new 2016 is due.
and lets see - no belts to change, ever. How's that factor in to your ownership cost?
Umm, you need to add an A/T to your Golf to compare. Then subtract any mpg loss. Oh, so that upped your initial buying price, then add in more maintenance. Good luck getting a VW ATX to last as long as the Prius CVTs do. Hmm, and all your engine options are turbo? Another good luck making that last past 150k miles.
See?
Pretty easy to nitpick and argue either direction.
I don't even own a Prius, but know that they are dead reliable and economic to own and maintain. I'd go for a used 2010-2013 model and pay cash, though, to make even more economic sense.
And gas isn't $2 here, so the payoff will come much quicker, especially after you add in your increased purchase price and maintenance costs. At least the gasser doesn't have a timing belt, b/c that would add up more against your ownership costs.
PS - I do think a sportwagon is a very practical car, while maintaining more driving dynamics than a Prius. I'm sure the ride, is way, way, nicer and more fun.
The Prius has a planetary transmission, not a CVT. It does not shift gears and has no friction devices, belts or other such wear items. It does not even have a reverse gear.
Thanks for catching that. Was mixing it up with my hybrid at work.
So, yes, even more simple and reliable.
I just wish they could make the Prius as fun to drive as a sportwagon or similar vehicle. Supposedly the 2016 is better, maybe as "fun" as a Camry now?
I'm still waiting for a hybrid or diesel CUV that can pull 40 mpg and not cost $40k+. If the Prius V had some beefy suspension and ground clearance or something like that.
Its a bummer to have to take a CUV/SUV/Truck on long road trips b/c after 6+ hours of driving, you need ground clearance for the last 2 miles to a campsite. 99% of the miles were inefficient and better suited to a TDI/Prius on the drive.
when I bought my Honda fit over prius, I justified the decision purely on $$$$/per mile.
I could not justify the extra $6k in the $3/gal gas back then.
based on the advertised MPG of the FIT.
Well, let's just say that I get nowhere close that mpg.
Even with my actual mpg, my per mile cost is lower than the prius, if I had to do it all over again, I would have picked the prius hand down.
Prius hate: lol, does it matter if a few does not like it?
I could not justify the extra $6k in the $3/gal gas back then.
based on the advertised MPG of the FIT.
Well, let's just say that I get nowhere close that mpg.
Even with my actual mpg, my per mile cost is lower than the prius, if I had to do it all over again, I would have picked the prius hand down.
Prius hate: lol, does it matter if a few does not like it?
This year at least, Prius II is not $6k more than a Honda Fit. The discounts on the 2015 Prius have been good most of this year. I expect they are very good right now with the 2016 coming up.
My main gripe with the Prius driving experience is that Toyota did not bother to program the HSD to act like a CVT should. Specifically, once the engine is running if I keep my foot steady on the go pedal then the engine RPM and power output should remain steady. But it does not, it varies greatly with the vehicle speed. If the vehicle speed is increasing I have to constantly let up on the go pedal, and vice versa. This is like poor steering that requires constant correction - I find it tiring.
My main gripe with the Prius driving experience is that Toyota did not bother to program the HSD to act like a CVT should. Specifically, once the engine is running if I keep my foot steady on the go pedal then the engine RPM and power output should remain steady. But it does not, it varies greatly with the vehicle speed. If the vehicle speed is increasing I have to constantly let up on the go pedal, and vice versa. This is like poor steering that requires constant correction - I find it tiring.
I don't want to sound like a 'prius hater' but i find it hard to see where it fits in the 2016 model lineup of new cars.
For all the tree hugging gas saving types, they can just get a 16 Chevy Volt. It destroys the Prius with 53 electric miles and 40 mpg on gas. It kills it on acceleration too. Giant tax credit.
Volt hits the needs of anyone doing about 1-150 miles a day.
Nissan Leaf is great for short trip drivers.
Countless gas only cheap cars for people that want ultimate money savings.
Countless fun cars for people who value driving dynamics over max MPG.
Its like RPG video game Fallout, you make a character and distribute skill points into any category you want. (strength, intelligence, agility, luck, ect) The Prius put all of its points into gas mileage and no points into style, handling, braking, power, ect.
I do think a USED prius is an excellent bargain. Most owners just lollygag them around town at a snails pace and take excellent care of them. That, and somehow, they are very reliable even with all that complexity underhood. New or used, you get the same slow gas sipper that wont break down, so let someone else eat the depreciation.
For all the tree hugging gas saving types, they can just get a 16 Chevy Volt. It destroys the Prius with 53 electric miles and 40 mpg on gas. It kills it on acceleration too. Giant tax credit.
Volt hits the needs of anyone doing about 1-150 miles a day.
Nissan Leaf is great for short trip drivers.
Countless gas only cheap cars for people that want ultimate money savings.
Countless fun cars for people who value driving dynamics over max MPG.
Its like RPG video game Fallout, you make a character and distribute skill points into any category you want. (strength, intelligence, agility, luck, ect) The Prius put all of its points into gas mileage and no points into style, handling, braking, power, ect.
I do think a USED prius is an excellent bargain. Most owners just lollygag them around town at a snails pace and take excellent care of them. That, and somehow, they are very reliable even with all that complexity underhood. New or used, you get the same slow gas sipper that wont break down, so let someone else eat the depreciation.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: OneEyeJack
Have you tried the "Power Mode" button? Our Prius leaves the Taurus for dead at the stop light in power mode but not in Econo mode or no mode. Maybe you just didn't know how the car works.
I recently rented a prius, and tried this mode. In my Honda Accord hybrid thread I mentioned how slow the prius felt compared to the accord. In power mode that's still the same, but far different from the eco mode. For my recent rental of a prius I drove over 200 miles. I averaged a hair over 49 MPG. I generally drove in eco, but found that my very light foot driving style would sometimes cause the car to totally not respond, creating a potentially unsafe situation. In "power" mode, the throttle was more responsive and the engine stayed on a bit more. Even with some playing with the power mode, the car did great MPG wise. No need for AC helped...
Have you tried the "Power Mode" button? Our Prius leaves the Taurus for dead at the stop light in power mode but not in Econo mode or no mode. Maybe you just didn't know how the car works.
I recently rented a prius, and tried this mode. In my Honda Accord hybrid thread I mentioned how slow the prius felt compared to the accord. In power mode that's still the same, but far different from the eco mode. For my recent rental of a prius I drove over 200 miles. I averaged a hair over 49 MPG. I generally drove in eco, but found that my very light foot driving style would sometimes cause the car to totally not respond, creating a potentially unsafe situation. In "power" mode, the throttle was more responsive and the engine stayed on a bit more. Even with some playing with the power mode, the car did great MPG wise. No need for AC helped...
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: dareo
For all the tree hugging gas saving types, they can just get a 16 Chevy Volt. It destroys the Prius with 53 electric miles and 40 mpg on gas. It kills it on acceleration too. Giant tax credit.
I bought the HAH sort of right place right time when they were trying to clear them out. If the volt has the right legroom for my rather tall family (which manifests itself in the rear legroom characteristic), its a winner. The Accord was a no brainer for that - full adults can sit behind me, which isn't usually the norm.
But generally I agree. The volt is the right concept going forward IMO.
For all the tree hugging gas saving types, they can just get a 16 Chevy Volt. It destroys the Prius with 53 electric miles and 40 mpg on gas. It kills it on acceleration too. Giant tax credit.
I bought the HAH sort of right place right time when they were trying to clear them out. If the volt has the right legroom for my rather tall family (which manifests itself in the rear legroom characteristic), its a winner. The Accord was a no brainer for that - full adults can sit behind me, which isn't usually the norm.
But generally I agree. The volt is the right concept going forward IMO.
I've rented a Prius on 2 occasions. They're not comparable to my current cars (BMW 528i 5 MT, Honda Accord V6 6MT).
I'd suggest they be evaluated them for what they are: a very reliable, very fuel efficient, reasonable handling car. I like them. If fuel gets a lot more expensive (and I hope it does), I'd consider buying one.
I'd suggest they be evaluated them for what they are: a very reliable, very fuel efficient, reasonable handling car. I like them. If fuel gets a lot more expensive (and I hope it does), I'd consider buying one.
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