0w30 Quartz better for noisy tappets?

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Brit33

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I have a new 2nd hand car on my drive. Peugeot 307 1.6 16v petrol (Tu5)

less than 32,000 miles with full service history but the last oil change was done 2 years ago. First thing I did was to change the oil. I used 5w40.

But I am bothered by a tappet sound on cold starts. It last for some minutes until the engine has warmed up. For me the hydraulic tappets/lifters are not pumping up properly fast enough.

Maybe another oil change and a thinner oil - thinking of buying Quartz 0w30.
Could have had some sludge build of due to the max service interval reached.

Do you think the 0w30 would pump up the tappets better when cold?

(also it's going to be my wife's school run car etc so lots of very short runs. 0w30 maybe better suited)
 
For minutes? If you said it lasts 2 seconds I would say try 0W30, but minutes? Something else is going one there.
Maybe W40 is not recommended at all and is thick for that engine, but doubt that.
 
Originally Posted By: edyvw
For minutes? If you said it lasts 2 seconds I would say try 0W30, but minutes? Something else is going one there.
Maybe W40 is not recommended at all and is thick for that engine, but doubt that.


First thought was a failed tappet but from experience these continue to tick especially when hot.

Just had the belt and pump changed and the mechanic said 'it's a Peugeot, they are tappety!'
But at the back of my mind I'm thinking the worst. 16 tappet change!
 
The mechanic did ask me if I had done a flush.

Possibility is that an oil passage could be partially blocked and preventing the pump up of a lifter when oil is at its thickest.

Might try a wynns flush and change the oil again. If no improvement then I guess it may be a tappet change (done this myself on an alfa so I know what is involved), the car has a 3 month warranty so the coverage should be enough for 80% of the cost.
 
Originally Posted By: Brit33
The mechanic did ask me if I had done a flush.

Possibility is that an oil passage could be partially blocked and preventing the pump up of a lifter when oil is at its thickest.

Might try a wynns flush and change the oil again. If no improvement then I guess it may be a tappet change (done this myself on an alfa so I know what is involved), the car has a 3 month warranty so the coverage should be enough for 80% of the cost.

Yeah, flush could mess things up.
 
Total Quartz yes.
Just gone for a motorway run to get the 5w40 oil nice and hot to clean things.
Got back and very quiet. No tappet sound at all.
Think I will try the 0w30 to see if it pumps up the tappets when cold. If not then I guess it's a trip to the garage.

Not sure about trying an engine flush though
 
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I'm not sure about using a 0w30 in a TU5 motor. It is an older design. Liqui moly have some hydro adjusters additive / treatment. It is a very good company, maybe it would help.
 
Originally Posted By: chrisri
I'm not sure about using a 0w30 in a TU5 motor. It is an older design. Liqui moly have some hydro adjusters additive / treatment. It is a very good company, maybe it would help.


Plug in your number plate and it brings up the oils. 0w30 and also in the manual for normal climates nothing extreme.
I have added some wynns tappet cleaner additive a few days ago. Couldn't find the Moly
Total
 
Looking into changing the tappets for new INA.
120 pounds for 16 tappets INA 420 0220. Not too bad.
AS long as the cams are still in good condition
 
That's really a low mileage to change tappets! At least they are not too expensive to replace
smile.gif


Considering the price of the parts I'm not sure it is worth trying something else before replacing them, but maybe just pulling out the tappets to clean them before replacing them is worth a try ; with such a low mileage they are more probably sludged than worn out...that's just a guess.

I'm also surprised Total recommend low SAPS oil for this Engine, I'd give a try to Total Quartz 9000 0W30 maybe.

What 5W40 oil did you use and what were the service interval before? How does it look through the filler cap?
 
Originally Posted By: Popsy
That's really a low mileage to change tappets! At least they are not too expensive to replace
smile.gif


Considering the price of the parts I'm not sure it is worth trying something else before replacing them, but maybe just pulling out the tappets to clean them before replacing them is worth a try ; with such a low mileage they are more probably sludged than worn out...that's just a guess.

I'm also surprised Total recommend low SAPS oil for this Engine, I'd give a try to Total Quartz 9000 0W30 maybe.

What 5W40 oil did you use and what were the service interval before? How does it look through the filler cap?



That's what I keep telling myself. Such a low mileage engine. The services by the previous owner were performed on time according to the book with the official garage stamps. Only the last interval just creeped over 24 months (with fully snyth) but had only done 2800 miles. It had an engine flush in 2012 I see from the invoices.
I changed it straight away to 5w40 QX Triple fully synth. The QX I always use in my Skoda Octavia.
A perfectly good oil IMO.

Last night I started her up again in the cold and didn't hear the tapping initially, then it came on and off intermittently after about 30 secs. Very strange.
Don't know if it's just a stuck tappet trying to clean itself up or about to fail completely.

So next step maybe just another oil change to 0w30 Total Quartz to save myself the 30 pounds and try and get it booked in for a tappet change under the warranty which is valid until the end of Jan 2016 I believe.




Thanks
 
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are facing two possibilities:

- doing short OCI with good detergent oil to try cleaning the tappets, and maybe the possible sludge accumulated
- not doing anything and using the worst oil possible so the tappets are extra noisy so you can get them replaced under warranty.

First case you may end up replacing the tappets anyway, at your own cost since the warranty expired after the short OCI (that's two months left before January, clock is ticking)
Second case you'll end up with new tappets. They may eventually become stuck if there is a real sludge problem with the engine, but I doubt there's one.

If I were you I'd try to have the tappets replaced under warranty, before doing anything...plus the tappet noise not coming at startup and coming later is strange!

Can you tell if the engine has some obvious sign of sludging? With it's low mileage, and with short/correct OCI I doubt it is a sludge problem? Does the filler cap tube looks clean, the camshaft worn out, dipstick sludged? What did the old oil looked when you changed it?
 
Originally Posted By: Popsy
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are facing two possibilities:

- doing short OCI with good detergent oil to try cleaning the tappets, and maybe the possible sludge accumulated
- not doing anything and using the worst oil possible so the tappets are extra noisy so you can get them replaced under warranty.

First case you may end up replacing the tappets anyway, at your own cost since the warranty expired after the short OCI (that's two months left before January, clock is ticking)
Second case you'll end up with new tappets. They may eventually become stuck if there is a real sludge problem with the engine, but I doubt there's one.

If I were you I'd try to have the tappets replaced under warranty, before doing anything...plus the tappet noise not coming at startup and coming later is strange!

Can you tell if the engine has some obvious sign of sludging? With it's low mileage, and with short/correct OCI I doubt it is a sludge problem? Does the filler cap tube looks clean, the camshaft worn out, dipstick sludged? What did the old oil looked when you changed it?



Old oil came out as expected - black but no sludge. also let it drain for a good 48 hours. Clean dipstick and filler cap.
Drained out a bit of the new oil I put in and all looks good, a bit darkened but thats the normal cleaning process.

Very fustrating. Anyway I will get a quote/opinion from my garage. Then they can see the condition of the cams when putting in new tappets if I go that route.

Thanks
 
Still undecided whether to try a wynns engine flush first.
Could be the strainer is a bit gunged up but unlikely. Just a thought.

You cannot hear the tappets if you rev above idling, maybe an oil pressure issue at cold idle but not enough to trigger the OP warning light.

To correct a previous post: Halfords did an engine flush Sep 2013.
 
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First time I did a flush was recently on the Barchetta, this thing thins the oil like water!
I didn't had the heart to let it idle more than 10 min (the package said 10-20 min), the engine was making more and more noise, so I dumped the oil after 10 min and did a short OCI with some diesel oil and a cheap oil filter I had in my stash. Then put M1 0W40...and an oil temp sensor, and the [censored] variator is still making some noise sometimes
mad.gif


Have you tried having the tappets replaced under warranty? Maybe that's the best thing to do
smile.gif
 
I suppose you can flush your engine more safely and cheaply, without using some agressive flush-dedicated product; that's how I did, anyway, and most of you are probably aware of this method:

-I drained the oil leaving the filter in place
-I used leftovers in some oil jugs I have had used before. You also could use some cheap oil with the needed viscosity.
-Let it run as long as you want, from 10 min to 500km. I let it run for 10-15 min and let it out, it came out with lots of tiny brownish greasy particules of "baby" sludge
laugh.gif
The detergents in the fresh leftover/cheap oil will do the job, as long as they have the time and the temperature to do it
-Then I changed the filter too. No reason to change the filter before the flush, IMO
 
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Just had a chat with my garage about the tappets. He knows the engine well and said so many of the TUV engines have the tappet sound and there is not much you can do.
We can try the warranty but from his experience tappets are very difficult to get done on a warranty unless they have completely collapsed and have stopped working.

He did mention try an engine flush with Forte before we go down other routes. He's also going to investigate more into the engine as he remembered at the factory on some of these engines they do adjust the tappets when fitted even though they are hydraulic.

Very kindly gave me a bottle of Forte.
 
Just bought online some Total Quartz 0w30 for the 307, some good deals about right now. 28 pounds for 5 litres
Nielsen CDG.

Also 5 litres of QX 5w40 for my skoda octavia with a Mann filter and Bosch filter for the Peugeot. 23 quid for the 3 items from carparts4less!

You know tonight the peugeot was sounding better. Maybe that wynns tappet cleaner is working after 5 days of use.
 
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