Shell Helix 3 20W50 API SJ/CF

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FCD

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I'm new to the forum , i'm from spain and recently i bought and changed the oil in my 1975 Ford Capri , i bought some Shell Helix 3 20w50 oil which you can't get ina many places i think, anyway i am aware fully that flat tappet engines need ZDDP to survive and i just wanted to know for sure if this oil has enough ZDDP , the API rating is SJ/CF Which is pre 2001 so i would think it probably has enough ZDDP? Thanks !
 
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The Helix 3 20W50 should be good to go.

However you may consider Helix 5 15W40 SN or any dual rated HDEO CI4/SL for similar ZDDP protection and higher quality base oils.
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Note: Btw, Helix 3 20W50 is available in my home country too, but rated SL/CF.
 
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Thank you but i don't think i will , i can get the 20w50 at a shop close to me and the oil pressure is better with the 20w50 and also 20w50 is what is specified for my engine, also the engine used to sound very rattly with 10w40 in it specially on hot summer days!
 
My 20W50 is SJ too, why do some countries have SJ and others SL or maybe even SN. What would be the difference? Just talking about the 20W50.

Would the 20W50 SJ use more Group 1 base stock ?

When it comes to Zinc/Phos limits on SN oils, I thought these only applied to the lighter ILSAC grades, but there was no limit on the heavier oils. So why don't we get a high zinc SN 20W50?
 
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I just checked
Penrite HPR 30 mineral oil is SM with 1570 ppm zinc. It is 20W60, Penrite always take it up a notch, but they recommend it for 20W50 applications.

The Valvoline XLD 20W50 in my stash says SJ, but the valvoline web site says SL. (no zinc info is given).

To me 20W50 mineral oils are all over the place.
 
I had a look at the spec of this oil and I think it's changed since my day, when it was truly awesome!

There's nothing much you can deduce from the spec but I suspect this oil contains some kind of downtreat of the Lz chemistry they use in HX5. The SJ might point to this being Group II rather than Group I.

If any of this is true, then this oil might not contain much ZDDP at all, and I might look elsewhere for something to put in my Capri.
 
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy

There's nothing much you can deduce from the spec but I suspect this oil contains some kind of downtreat of the Lz chemistry they use in HX5. The SJ might point to this being Group II rather than Group I.

If any of this is true, then this oil might not contain much ZDDP at all, and I might look elsewhere for something to put in my Capri.


Hi Joe90,
Sorry but what is downtreated LZ chemistry?
And why would SJ be group 2 and not group 1? Wouldn't it be the other way around?

Not arguing, just a little confused.

OP, many people use mixed fleet HDEO 15W40 mineral oils in applications like this. A dual rated diesel / petrol oil usually API CI4 or CJ4 with API SL. The Shell product is usually called Rotella or Rimula. These are heavy duty, high zinc (ZDDP) oils.
 
Lz = Lubrizol, the additive supplier.

It could be Group I but given that Group IIs are so dominant these days, especially in the Far-East, I'd guess Group II with an ultra low DI treat.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
SR5, see (for an example)

http://www.aftonchemical.com/ProductDataSheets/Engine Oil/HiTEC-9300G-Series_PDS.pdf

See that you can use varying treat rates to get different performance levels ?

It makes me giggle when people state that using the older specced oils "means" that they are higher additised.


Thanks Shannow, that link explains it all nicely, including % dose rates.

So the cheap SJ 20W50 oil I can buy, is exactly that, a cheap oil with a light add pack. Not a classic hidden gem. I suspected so, just going on price.

For awhile my go to heavy mineral oil has been a SN 15W-40 such as GTX or the HPR 30 above which has a heavy add pack and isn't cheap.

Thanks all
 
Originally Posted By: SR5
So the cheap SJ 20W50 oil I can buy, is exactly that, a cheap oil with a light add pack. Not a classic hidden gem. I suspected so, just going on price.


Another myth bites the dust, eh ?
 
That's why if I do want a higher level of additives, I buy something that's advertising it, or is going to have it by virtue of other specifications, such as a CJ-4 lube. We get some pretty "weak" 20w-50 options in North America. If I for some reason even saw the need to buy a 20w-50, it would probably be VR1, for cost and the fact that it will have the higher AW levels.
 
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: SR5
So the cheap SJ 20W50 oil I can buy, is exactly that, a cheap oil with a light add pack. Not a classic hidden gem. I suspected so, just going on price.


Another myth bites the dust, eh ?


Yep, I was sus. of it right from the beginning.

Look at the Edge 10W60 it's API SN (non ILSAC grade)
The Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 is API SL ( ILSAC grade).

Those two Edge products make sense, when you look at the viscosity and the API spec.

A cheap SJ 20W50 has a weak add pack, and is nothing special. The heavy add pack Penrite HPR 30 (SM, 20W60, 1570 ppm zinc) is about twice the price of the SJ oils. Penrite do claim the HPR series are effectively mineral race oils for the road.

So what do I do with my 5L of Valvoline SJ 20W50 now that I've upgraded my mower from a old 4 stroke to a new 2 stroke?
 
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Just regarding the original post, I'm only guessing but I would have thought that a 1975 Ford Capri engine would have originally been designed around a 20W50 API SF oil. I don't go that far back but I would have thought such an oil would be a very lightly treated Group I. They were probably just as reliant on the thickness of the oil as they were on the ZDDP for anti-wear properties of the oil. In which case, if this were my engine, I'd stick rigidly to using 20W50, even if it's lightly treated than drop down a grade to an oil with a known, higher level of ZDDP.

Shannow - nice post. The guy that put that system together was a true artist!
 
So is it safe to keep using this oil then? ,my 1975 Capri has the 3.0 V6 , i've asked other 3.0 owners what oil they used and all of them said 20w50, before i used Mobil 2000? Semi synth 10w40 and since i switched to this 20w50 i've gotta say i was stunned by how much better/ smoother the engine felt , it's quieter now too and it burns about half of the oil it used to burn. i thought for sure that this oil had to have more ZDDP too since i think it was originally formulated in 1995, i don't care if i have to change it more often as long as my cashaft doesn't go flat! lol , this is the jug it came in :

The Mobil 10w40 that came out was pretty black


This oil is supposedly good for both diesel and gasoline engines and it's also a high mileage oil and Shell themselves say this oil is formulated for older carburetor equipped engines that burn oil.
If you want to see more of my Capri :
http://www.fordcapriforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=47844
 
Another good option (better than Shell IMO) would be Selenia HPX 20w50. Of course, if you have to use 20w50 oils.
 
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