Non-detergent oil in small engines

jeepman3071

jeepman3071

Joined
Apr 15, 2010
Messages
9,577
Location
Connecticut
My buddy's dad restores antique cars and tractors for a living. I stopped over there the other day and he was rebuilding an old 23D Briggs and Stratton. Somehow we got talking about oil...

He said that it is important to run a non-detergent oil in a splash lubricated engine, because all of the metal particles settle to the bottom. If the engine is pressure lubed and has a filter, then using a detergent oil is okay because the particles are suspended in the oil and filtered out.

I've been working on small engines for around 10 years now, and have always used detergent oil. First Pennzoil and more recently Rotella. Any thoughts on this? I don't really see detergent oil causing more wear in a splash lubed engine, but it got me thinking.
 
Detergent oils work better other wise todays ope wouldn't last as long as they do.
 
Modern detergents are much stouter that old SA rated non detergent oils.Many additives the old oil never had.Go with the modern stuff,preferrably the previous "S" rating,as the latest has less ZDDP for the mechanical cam.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
No engine should be run on ND oils.

ND oils have NO anti-wear, NO rust preventers, or any other protection additives.

ummm oil by its very nature is a rust preventative.
 
Please read the label on the ND oil. I got a quart for my air compressor, and found it wasn't right for that use either. It says not to use it in engines made after 1940. Put the oil in your oil can and just use it to wipe off your tools.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
...it is important to run a non-detergent oil in a splash lubricated engine, because all of the metal particles settle to the bottom.

I remember that advice from years ago, but can you even buy this stuff today? And if so, why would you want to? If I recall correctly, that stuff was for pistons without rings.
 
Last edited:
Non detergent oil is antique technology when u compare it to a modern day detergent oil there is no point in even bothering using non detergent oil. What I would look for in a modern oil is the one that has the highest flash point. A high flash point is what u need for an air cooled engine to last a long time.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
My buddy's dad restores antique cars and tractors for a living. I stopped over there the other day and he was rebuilding an old 23D Briggs and Stratton. Somehow we got talking about oil...

He said that it is important to run a non-detergent oil in a splash lubricated engine, because all of the metal particles settle to the bottom. If the engine is pressure lubed and has a filter, then using a detergent oil is okay because the particles are suspended in the oil and filtered out.

I've been working on small engines for around 10 years now, and have always used detergent oil. First Pennzoil and more recently Rotella. Any thoughts on this? I don't really see detergent oil causing more wear in a splash lubed engine, but it got me thinking.


Given his (your buddy's dad) explanation on using ND motor oil, I wouldn't, for the life of me, let him lay his hands on any of the engines (incl. OPEs) that I own.

That's pretty much what I have to say. The rest of it is pretty much history.

Q.
 
I can see where you wouldnt want to just run a modern hdeo in an old 1942 engine full of sludge. on a rebuilt/cleaned one though...
 
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
No engine should be run on ND oils.

ND oils have NO anti-wear, NO rust preventers, or any other protection additives.

ummm oil by its very nature is a rust preventative.


So does Vaseline, but let's get real.

Oil only leaves a film on metal and it is only good if it's kept inside and out of the elements.

Subject ND oil to extreme heat and combustion inside an engine and ND oil produces sludge very fast because there are no detergents or dispersants or any other protection additives.

And NO, NADA, Anti-wear additives.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
No engine should be run on ND oils.

ND oils have NO anti-wear, NO rust preventers, or any other protection additives.

ummm oil by its very nature is a rust preventative.


You've been around long enough to know better than to give an incredulous freshman-level response to a graduate-level member.
 
Non detergent oil is good in compressors, Mercruiser tilt/trim pumps, etc. Any engine should have normal modern detergent oil in it. OPE or gas/diesel engine. (4 cycle assumed).
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071
My buddy's dad restores antique cars and tractors for a living. I stopped over there the other day and he was rebuilding an old 23D Briggs and Stratton. Somehow we got talking about oil...

He said that it is important to run a non-detergent oil in a splash lubricated engine, because all of the metal particles settle to the bottom. If the engine is pressure lubed and has a filter, then using a detergent oil is okay because the particles are suspended in the oil and filtered out.

I've been working on small engines for around 10 years now, and have always used detergent oil. First Pennzoil and more recently Rotella. Any thoughts on this? I don't really see detergent oil causing more wear in a splash lubed engine, but it got me thinking.


Given his (your buddy's dad) explanation on using ND motor oil, I wouldn't, for the life of me, let him lay his hands on any of the engines (incl. OPEs) that I own.

That's pretty much what I have to say. The rest of it is pretty much history.

Q.


Yes, he is very old school in his beliefs (stuck in the 60s) and we often have good debates on technology. With that said he is very skilled with mechanical, metal, and body work.

I won't be touching non-detergent oils, I love my PYB and Rotella in small OPE.
thumbsup2.gif
 
His granddaddy did it that way, his daddy did it that way, and he has been doing it that way for the past 60 years. It's hard to break habits, even with empirical data and facts staring them in the face.
 
Originally Posted By: jeepman3071


Yes, he is very old school in his beliefs (stuck in the 60s) and we often have good debates on technology. With that said he is very skilled with mechanical, metal, and body work.

I won't be touching non-detergent oils, I love my PYB and Rotella in small OPE.
thumbsup2.gif



I worked alongside with a middle-aged mech back then (he was initially a highschool dropout which focused primarily in making a living by fixing cars, bikes, etc. and progressed to become a licensed backyard indy shop, worked out of his garage); which, other than some fundamental carb work, general brake jobs, etc. he could not do anything squat with electronics, letting alone Bosch EFI systems. I had to help fill him in on most of his automotive electrical work and also @ his hangar on some Cessna rewiring, etc.

I also worked alongside with an old geezer mech from SE asia: he knows all the tricks all the way back to pouring and shaving babbitt bearing shells on older Ford model A, etc. but again, cannot do squat with electronics and modern OBD-I systems (less so with OBD-II). I had to help fill him in when his bag of tricks run out (including, but not limited to pinching holes on vacuum lines to help lean out the system (if he suspect system runs too rich to pass emissions testing, etc.)

So much for geezers these days. While I hold fundamental respects towards them, fact is: automotive technology has gone leaps and bounds during the past 70+ years to the point where some of the skillsets/knowhows are, IMO pretty much dated. This is also including (which I oftentimes argue against) sealed ball joints with nylon vs greasable ball joints.

when it comes to OPE engines, B&S, Techumseh hasn't made any significant technical progress (stayed flathead'ed for the longest time, ran on magneto on flywheels, a fairly dirty, if not rich running pulsajet carb, etc. until recently upgraded to OHV.

But then, the latest and greatest B&S OPE engine offering is, IMO, a shame in terms of overall quality (which left a strong taste in my mouth).

Q.
 
Old timer I know puts only non-detergent oil in a Troy bilt Horse tiller with a cast iron Tecumseh engine that was made in the early to mid 70's by Garden Way. Back then those tillers were made in New York I think, and they were made good and heavy. Till the ground with one hand, and not get beat to death in the process.

I rode with him to the local hardware store this past Spring, and he bought some non-detergent motor oil. I asked what it was for, and he said he was going to change the oil in the tiller. I just kept my mouth shut since this motor has been running just fine since the 70's, makes plenty of power, and I I have used the tiller lots over the last four years. He has approximately three acres of garden, and he plows and rips with a tractor, but uses the Horse tiller to till it, and maintain the rows.

Let's see that's about 40 years of non-detergent motor oil, and that motor still runs just fine.
 
Forgot to mention that the old timer I was talking about uses a 1953 Allis Chalmers tractor to plow and rip the ground. Same tractor his daddy used back in the day when they had a small farm to make ends meet. Never did ask him what oil he uses in that tractor, and I never will.
 
This myth is as old as the Pennzoil sludge one. Some of the guys I work with at Napa still parrot this myth. I challenge anyone to find a small engine, splash lubed or not, pressure lubed or not, oil filter or not, made in the last 30 years that spec's a non-detergent oil. I bet you can't find a single one. They all spec a modern detergent oil, and there's a reason for that.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

O
Any multi weight non-detergent oils available?
Replies
10
Views
888
The_Eric
E
Friend needs a NON-self propelled lawnmower
2
Replies
27
Views
2K
PontiacHO
B
Low priced oil / filters for riding lawn tractors with Briggs and Stratton engines.
2
Replies
30
Views
10K
nomas
C
Amsoil 15w40 vs Amsoil Small engine 10w40
Replies
7
Views
397
Pablo
H
Cat pressure washer pump oil vs SAE 30 non detergent
Replies
2
Views
3K
hondaDIY
Back
Top