What makes Motorcraft and Kendall oils so great?

[shiny]

My question concerns both their syn-blends and full synthetic formulas. A lot of people here swear by them, but the VOAs at PQIA don't seem remarkable: average TBNs, high NOACK. Kendall and Motorcraft's 5W20 syn-blend NOACKs are over the top at 15.2 and 15.1.

Motorcraft syn-blend is made to Ford specs. Is it the "best" formula they could come up with for their engines, or just the best at an affordable price point? Kendall has that impressive video showing Crown Vic taxis going 100K miles on 10K OCIs with Kendall GT-1 synthetic. But would any other synthetic have given the same results?

What *specifically* makes Motorcraft and Kendall stand out? Something besides anecdotes of, "I've always used it and my car runs great." Looking forward to learning!

 

[Cooper]

Nothing about those two oils make them stand out above any other name brand oil.

 

[SatinSilver]

Read about it yrs ago on the Accord forum and one of the most knowledgeable members posted about it:

Originally Posted By: ;785003
I use the motorcraft semisyn 5w20, best bang for the buck, imo. I change every 5k.

Haven't had any issues and since the oil was formulated to meet Ford's double time high temperature tests when they still did it, it's a good high quality oil.

 

[MolaKule]

I think their lubes have a very good friction modification system.

Quote:
A lot of people here swear by them, but the VOAs at PQIA don't seem remarkable: average TBNs, high NOACK. Kendall and Motorcraft's 5W20 syn-blend NOACKs are over the top at 15.2 and 15.1.


In the case of starting TBN that is not important but rather the TBN retention. The only way to determine TBN retention is to use it and do VOA's and UOA's.

VOA's are don't tell the whole story in terms of additive package. The purpose of VOA's is to establish a baseline for UOA comparison.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Crown Vic's go from police work to taxis at 100K and go to 500-600K in taxi service on a routine basis using 5w-20 conventional oil doing 3-5K OCI's.

 

[skyactiv]

Because it doesn't matter what oil is used in real Linden as long as it's an appropriate viscosity and meets the manufactures requirements. Some people look at VOA's/UOA's and wanna see a pinch of this and a cup of that.
I kinda think an oil that has a higher TBN might stay cleaner at the expense of wearing out the engine sooner. But none of us are going to put enough miles on a car/SUV/pick up truck to find out. So unless you really extend the OCI to oblivion or have some sort of known sludge monster or Mopar 2.7??? It doesn't matter. That is why we sometimes see the lowest wear numbers from oils such as Valvoline conventional.

 

[shiny]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
I think their lubes have a very good friction modification system.

Interesting. What role does friction modification play, and how important is it compared to other factors like HTHS, flash point, film strength, detergency, etc?

Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
A lot of people here swear by them, but the VOAs at PQIA don't seem remarkable: average TBNs, high NOACK. Kendall and Motorcraft's 5W20 syn-blend NOACKs are over the top at 15.2 and 15.1.


In the case of starting TBN that is not important but rather the TBN retention. The only way to determine TBN retention is to use it and do VOA's and UOA's.

VOA's are don't tell the whole story in terms of additive package. The purpose of VOA's is to establish a baseline for UOA comparison.

You're right, of course. Does the high NOACK indicate anything? I read here recently that the lower the NOACK, the higher the quality of the base oil, with the inverse being true as well. Do you agree or disagree?

 

[Claud]

I think one thing all mega mile engines have in common is oil changes before they are needed using good quality oil. Whatever the OCI mileage is, it is before the old oil has started to break down to the point of not giving top notch wear protection.
I dare say there are fans of all reputable brand oils who swear that their favorite oil is behind the engines longevity, when it is really due to diligent maintenance.

Claud.

 

[Wolf359]

The best bang for the buck may have been the pricing at Walmart, years ago Motorcraft was one of the cheapest 5w20 oil you could get, but then pricing went up and it's the same as all the other ones if not more. It was a synthetic blend priced like a conventional at the time.

 

[sicko]

Nothing overly special about them, but they put up good UOAs even in extended drain intervals, and they used to picked up cheaply. However, their price has gone up, and Kendall has become harder to find. They're just a smaller brand that seems to be just as good as most other synthetics that get a lot more attention than them. If you really want a good value, pick up some Trop Article oil. Its like the Kendall blend, but without the titanium, and people find it on sale for around a buck a quart.

As for the Kendall oil. I've got some Kendall GT-1 Full Synthetic in my vehicle right now, and I'll have a UOA on it later next year. I fully expect the UOA to show it's a normal easy wearing engine.

 

[KGMtech]

I use the Kendall GT1 5W40 in my 2004 Passat, it was always recommended by VWOA as one of many oils that met their standards for the 1.8T engine. We use Kendall brand oils in our stamping presses at our work, presses from 200T to 1200T and they work well.

I guess you can't really ignore the positive press and my experience supports the use of Kendall. However, for my other cars PP is good enough )

 

[SatinSilver]

Where do you get Trop Artic for a buck?

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Claud
I think one thing all mega mile engines have in common is oil changes before they are needed using good quality oil. Whatever the OCI mileage is, it is before the old oil has started to break down to the point of not giving top notch wear protection.
I dare say there are fans of all reputable brand oils who swear that their favorite oil is behind the engines longevity, when it is really due to diligent maintenance.

Claud.


Probably the main factor in reaching high mileage with any engine is intensive use.
This is why taxis and cop cars can achieve such high mileage.
I don't think that drain intervals matter as much as regular use.
Here's a thought experiment:
My mother has an '03 Accord K24, bought new.
The car has done all of 81K over the intervening years and has had regular oil changes every six months from new using whatever the selling dealer.
Do you really think that this engine could reach its 250K potential were someone to start using it on their hundred mile commute today?
I've seen engines not noted for their longevity reach heroic mileages when subjected to intensive use.
It ain't the OCIs that determine engine life, its the basic design as well as the way in which an engine is used.
Just my two cents.

 

[Pagophilus]

Originally Posted By: shiny

Interesting. What role does friction modification play, and how important is it compared to other factors like HTHS, flash point, film strength, detergency, etc?


When you have a reciprocating metal inside metal and metal on metal at several thousand RPM, I don't believe that metal never touches metal. It does, hence why you have wear metals in your oil. Therefore I like friction modification, and I like Moly, and I'm disappointed that my favourite oil dropped moly (when it became VW certified).

 

[shiny]

Originally Posted By: Pagophilus
Originally Posted By: shiny

Interesting. What role does friction modification play, and how important is it compared to other factors like HTHS, flash point, film strength, detergency, etc?


When you have a reciprocating metal inside metal and metal on metal at several thousand RPM, I don't believe that metal never touches metal. It does, hence why you have wear metals in your oil. Therefore I like friction modification, and I like Moly, and I'm disappointed that my favourite oil dropped moly (when it became VW certified).

So friction modification provides a similar function to film strength, in that it protects the engine from metal-to-metal wear?

Kendall GT-1 synthetic has good wear numbers, maybe from the titanium? But 4-ball wear tests and that film strength test that RAT 540 does are considered largely irrelevant around here for determining how well an oil protects. In those tests, Kendall and Motorcraft are only so-so.

Does that mean that metals like moly and titanium are more important for wear protection than film strength?

 

[53' Stude]

I believe MC synblend and Kendall semi syn are good oils. Never had any issues with them. I'll take Molakules advice and wisdom anytime

 

[pbm]

Motorcraft, Kendall, 76 etc...are all made by Conoco-Phillips. . I believe they (CP) make fine oils just like SOPUS, E-M, Chevron-Texaco, BP etc...Any of these oils changed prudently will get your car to very high mileage, IMO.

 

[DeepFriar]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27


Probably the main factor in reaching high mileage with any engine is intensive use.
This is why taxis and cop cars can achieve such high mileage.
I don't think that drain intervals matter as much as regular use.
o intensive use. It ain't the OCIs that determine engine life, its the basic design as well as the way in which an engine is used.
Just my two cents.


We would see the proof of that if we maintained a record of "cycles" as is done on turbine engines.

 

[meborder]

Why do I like Trop-Artic?
$1.99/qt
Great UOA's and good TBN retention with respectable OCI's

Click here


What's not to like?

 

[MolaKule]

Quote:
Interesting. What role does friction modification play, and how important is it compared to other factors like HTHS, flash point, film strength, detergency, etc?


http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...ddit#Post729029

The main reason for Friction Modification additives is to reduce friction which in turn increases mpg.

Those other items are totally separate topics.