I have been doing more and more research on the Honda VTC actuator issue that is prevelent with newer K24's. My 2012 Accord makes this lovely noise upon start up, sometimes even after sitting for only 2 hours. It is louder with temps dropping now (high 50s in the morning). It is sometimes resolved by leaving the key in the "on" position for over 2 minutes, but sometimes that trick doesn't work. I have been reading lately of cases where the timing chain stretches due to the VTC actuator slapping back and forth putting extra stress on the chain. I am consulting the BITOG crowd because I know that you guys here aren't made of fluff, you know your mechanics. So is this actually possible? Because if it is then I am out of luck because it grinds almost every other start on average. Or is it just because some of these chains may have been faulty from the factory? Enlighten me! I am discusted that this is such a wide spread issue that can cause engine damage and it has yet to be resolved.
VTC actuator causing timing chain stretch?
- Thread starter gregk24
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Considering the stress that the timing chain receives when driven vigorously as in track racing, I doubt very much that the VTC issue is causing any chain issues.
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
I thought Honda dealer would replace the actuator due to noise?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
Nick1994
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What's the engine damage being caused?
Originally Posted By: Nick1994
What's the engine damage being caused?
I have read accounts that the rapid back and forth motion of the VTC actuator causes extra stress on the chain during start up that stretches the chain to the point that it is not drive-able due to excessive chain stretch. There was even one that broke the chain and totaled the engine (like if a timing belt snapped). Not to mention that this grinding could be dispersing metal bits throughout the engine. I mean it is metal on metal after all.
What's the engine damage being caused?
I have read accounts that the rapid back and forth motion of the VTC actuator causes extra stress on the chain during start up that stretches the chain to the point that it is not drive-able due to excessive chain stretch. There was even one that broke the chain and totaled the engine (like if a timing belt snapped). Not to mention that this grinding could be dispersing metal bits throughout the engine. I mean it is metal on metal after all.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
You just like following me around, don't you?
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
You just like following me around, don't you?
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Remember, chains don't stretch. They wear.
Wear on timing chain? Oil isn't thick enough, oil flow is inadequate, excessive fuel dilution, oil temp is too high, or additive package is too environmentally eco-green safe, chain not big/strong enough, chain made of inferior metals...
I'm pretty close to buying a new Accord or two. Will have to rethink since the ol' eardrums can't tolerate startup noise.
Wear is done. If issue didn't occur when new, but occurs after xx thousand miles, its normal wear. Prevent wear by using a more stout oil(additives or viscosity).
Some things to consider... thicker oil, higher HTHS or label visc, better oil filter(working silicone ADBV or free flowing media), pre-luber pump or accumulator, ...
Also research your factory service manual to see if there is an oil screen somewhere for the actuator, or in the actuator. Maybe it just needs some cleaning. Give the engine a 10 minute kerosene cold engine flush prior to the next oil/filter change. Or, run a cleaner(AutoRx, Rislone, Lubegard)...
Still trust your OLM and alternating filter interval change?
Wear on timing chain? Oil isn't thick enough, oil flow is inadequate, excessive fuel dilution, oil temp is too high, or additive package is too environmentally eco-green safe, chain not big/strong enough, chain made of inferior metals...
I'm pretty close to buying a new Accord or two. Will have to rethink since the ol' eardrums can't tolerate startup noise.
Wear is done. If issue didn't occur when new, but occurs after xx thousand miles, its normal wear. Prevent wear by using a more stout oil(additives or viscosity).
Some things to consider... thicker oil, higher HTHS or label visc, better oil filter(working silicone ADBV or free flowing media), pre-luber pump or accumulator, ...
Also research your factory service manual to see if there is an oil screen somewhere for the actuator, or in the actuator. Maybe it just needs some cleaning. Give the engine a 10 minute kerosene cold engine flush prior to the next oil/filter change. Or, run a cleaner(AutoRx, Rislone, Lubegard)...
Still trust your OLM and alternating filter interval change?
Originally Posted By: Greasymechtech
Remember, chains don't stretch. They wear.
Wear on timing chain? Oil isn't thick enough, oil flow is inadequate, excessive fuel dilution, oil temp is too high, or additive package is too environmentally eco-green safe, chain not big/strong enough, chain made of inferior metals...
I'm pretty close to buying a new Accord or two. Will have to rethink since the ol' eardrums can't tolerate startup noise.
Wear is done. If issue didn't occur when new, but occurs after xx thousand miles, its normal wear. Prevent wear by using a more stout oil(additives or viscosity).
Some things to consider... thicker oil, higher HTHS or label visc, better oil filter(working silicone ADBV or free flowing media), pre-luber pump or accumulator, ...
Also research your factory service manual to see if there is an oil screen somewhere for the actuator, or in the actuator. Maybe it just needs some cleaning. Give the engine a 10 minute kerosene cold engine flush prior to the next oil/filter change. Or, run a cleaner(AutoRx, Rislone, Lubegard)...
Still trust your OLM and alternating filter interval change?
What do you mean chains don't stretch? Do you have anything to back up this statement? I plan on changing my oil at 5K or 15% MM whichever comes first, and Filter every other OCI. Using 0w20 synthetic as that is what Honda calls for. I am curious about your statement that chains don't stretch....
Remember, chains don't stretch. They wear.
Wear on timing chain? Oil isn't thick enough, oil flow is inadequate, excessive fuel dilution, oil temp is too high, or additive package is too environmentally eco-green safe, chain not big/strong enough, chain made of inferior metals...
I'm pretty close to buying a new Accord or two. Will have to rethink since the ol' eardrums can't tolerate startup noise.
Wear is done. If issue didn't occur when new, but occurs after xx thousand miles, its normal wear. Prevent wear by using a more stout oil(additives or viscosity).
Some things to consider... thicker oil, higher HTHS or label visc, better oil filter(working silicone ADBV or free flowing media), pre-luber pump or accumulator, ...
Also research your factory service manual to see if there is an oil screen somewhere for the actuator, or in the actuator. Maybe it just needs some cleaning. Give the engine a 10 minute kerosene cold engine flush prior to the next oil/filter change. Or, run a cleaner(AutoRx, Rislone, Lubegard)...
Still trust your OLM and alternating filter interval change?
What do you mean chains don't stretch? Do you have anything to back up this statement? I plan on changing my oil at 5K or 15% MM whichever comes first, and Filter every other OCI. Using 0w20 synthetic as that is what Honda calls for. I am curious about your statement that chains don't stretch....
Originally Posted By: mk378
A little wear at each joint in a chain is noticeable as an increase in overall length. Technically no metal has been "stretched" though.
This. The term "stretched" timing chain is a misnomer. The metal links are not undergoing plastic deformation and actually being elongated. Between wear on the sprockets and wear on the points on the chain that engage the sprockets, the wear makes the phase relationship between the crankshaft and camshaft slightly skewed, so the camshaft position lags behind the crankshaft. Same effect as if the chain had actually stretched, but not really.
A little wear at each joint in a chain is noticeable as an increase in overall length. Technically no metal has been "stretched" though.
This. The term "stretched" timing chain is a misnomer. The metal links are not undergoing plastic deformation and actually being elongated. Between wear on the sprockets and wear on the points on the chain that engage the sprockets, the wear makes the phase relationship between the crankshaft and camshaft slightly skewed, so the camshaft position lags behind the crankshaft. Same effect as if the chain had actually stretched, but not really.
Originally Posted By: dgunay
Chains do stretch.
And yes, VTC actuator failure causes timing chain stretch. I also changed VTC actuator along with the timing chain and timing chain guides. You should go to dealer to see if it's covered by the warranty.
Already been to the dealer and they even acknowledged that they heard the VTC noise, but they wouldn't replaced it.
Chains do stretch.
And yes, VTC actuator failure causes timing chain stretch. I also changed VTC actuator along with the timing chain and timing chain guides. You should go to dealer to see if it's covered by the warranty.
Already been to the dealer and they even acknowledged that they heard the VTC noise, but they wouldn't replaced it.
Originally Posted By: dishdude
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
You just like following me around, don't you?
I realize you're from Arizona but Calm down.
Originally Posted By: zach1900
Originally Posted By: dishdude
A lot of manufacturers are having timing chain failures because they are 3 miles long and turning multiple cam shafts, the water pump and balance shafts. Add a long OCI where the driver never pulls the dipstick and you have issues. I can't see a VTC actuator being a contributing factor.
A lot,really, Like which ones?
You just like following me around, don't you?
I realize you're from Arizona but Calm down.
The simplest solution would be to trade this car in and get something with a different engine.
Or you learn to ignore it and keep on driving until the chain or the actuator fails.
And finally a costly one, because it involves not only changing the actuator, but checking the timing to see if the timing chain needs to be changed. There is no other way around it.
We can all speculate on the internet and make semi-educated guesses, but only a tear down will reveal what's really going on.
Or you learn to ignore it and keep on driving until the chain or the actuator fails.
And finally a costly one, because it involves not only changing the actuator, but checking the timing to see if the timing chain needs to be changed. There is no other way around it.
We can all speculate on the internet and make semi-educated guesses, but only a tear down will reveal what's really going on.
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