2006 Sienna ATF Help (Amsoil vs Maxlife vs T-IV)

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jojojojo

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Hi all,

Looking for some advice on my ATF. Here's the story:

I bought an 06 Sienna Limited AWD with 96k miles. It was dealer serviced all throughout its life and the ATF was changed at 30k, then, possibly at 60k. When I bought the car, I had some Amsoil Signature Series ATF remaining from previous use (worked excellently in my 2008 Mazda CX-9 & a 2007 Hyundai Veracruz). So I did a drain & fill using Amsoil ATF. The existing T-IV looked black and my mechanic suggested the ATF was never changed. I have the service records that indicate that it did- I think T-IV just blackens very quickly.

About 500 miles later, my transmission started shifting late (up shifts & downshifts). Then I noticed it would slip under load from 2nd to 3rd gear. I also noticed that the more people I had in the car, the more the transmission didn't want to shift up or down. I'm a big believer in Amsoil products but I thought maybe, for whatever reason, it wasn't applicable in this situation so I did another drain & fill using Valvoline Maxlife ATF. The fluid came out black again.

About 300 miles later, it was shifting better so I decided to do another drain & fill (third one) using Maxlife again. This time, the fluid that came out was better, but still closer to black.

The car has 98k miles now and the transmission still shifts funny here and there. Occasionally, I get the 2-3 up shift slip. The tranny also downshifts to 1st gear under 10mph in creeping speeds (I live in Manhattan so I experience this a lot). This might just be a characteristic of these transmissions and the software (my previous 2008 Lexus IS250 AWD acted similarly but was much smoother), but I feel it to be over pronounced.

I just bought T-IV oil to see if it'll alleviate the problem. I don't know if the car was driving this way before I started changing ATF's because I did it relatively soon after I purchased the car. But from what I can remember, it was shifting smoother- even with the blackened T-IV ATF.

Any suggestions?
 
Welcome to Bitog! I'd do a fluid exchange and use OEM Toyota ATF and hope for the best. If it has a serviceable filter I'd change that too with an OEM filter.
 
No real difference, an exchange is swapping out all fluid and a flush exchanges all fluid under pressure.sometimes there is a cleaning additive run through the system before a flush.

However most shops its just the lingo they use. The actual procedure is the same
 
Originally Posted By: jojojojo
What's the difference between a fluid exchange and a flush?


You can do a line off exchange at home by removing the return hose and letting the transmission pump the fluid out. A "flush" would require a machine, and the end result would be the same, no real difference. There were machines that "reverse flushed" the system and are no longer in use, because they can flush junk back through the pump. The machines in use today are just exchange machines.
 
If you have the trans drain plug, you can do 2-3 changes with Toyota fluid over a couple thousand miles, the one recommended in your manual. That would flush it pretty well and give you the clean oil you seek. Or you can do the filter too once which may be difficult, I maintain an 02 Camry and regardless of the talk, the Toyota fluid is not the same as XYZ fluid which fits many other cars, it is unique for the Toyotas and makes a difference I have found.
 
I was under the impression that flushes are not good and that drain & fills is the preferred method. Does it help to change the filter while doing a flush?

Can anyone comment on using Amsoil or Maxlife, then switching back to T-IV/3309 with better results?
 
Use Toyota T-IV or another fluid that meets specs. The Amsoil obviously must not have met specs. I don't think MaxLife ATF meets the specs either but they advertise it can be used in T-IV transmissions, but correct me if I'm wrong.

Drain & refill 3 times over the course of a couple weeks with T-IV or an equivalent. I think Mobil 3309 ATF is equivalent to T-IV.
 
BITOG has a special Forum for this topic:

Transmissions, Brakes, PSF, Differential Lubricants


I assume this is a STEP-Shift transmission.

Since you stated the fluid keeps coming out very dark to black, I don't think the problem is the fluid. You are removing particulate matter every time you change the fluid, so wear has been going on here.

I prefer pan drop or drain plug type drains and refills (with filter changes) as it slowly cleans the internals.

Do at least one more drain and refill with any of the top three fluids: Amsoil ATF, Redline ATF, or MaxLife.
 
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Originally Posted By: jojojojo
I was under the impression that flushes are not good and that drain & fills is the preferred method. Does it help to change the filter while doing a flush?

Can anyone comment on using Amsoil or Maxlife, then switching back to T-IV/3309 with better results?


I like maxlife in my Equinox. It has the Aisin Warner transmission that were used in the camrys. I had Mobil 3309 (which is essentially T-IV) and the shifts were jerky at time and the cold shifting was rough. I switched and did two drain and fills with maxlife and my shifts are firm yet crisp. Nice feeling. Personally I prefer drain and fills versus flush/fluid exchanges. It is a more gentle exchange of the fluid.
 
I've personally had very good experiences with Maxlife.

In a 2003 Volvo V70 2.5T, I changed the fluid out to Maxlife and it fixed a 1-2 slip.

Amsoil has worked well in other AW applications.

I'm thinking of doing 3 more drain & fills with T-IV.

PS- others have used Amsoil & Maxlife ATF in the Sienna with great results. T-IV is confusing to me. Some say it's special. Others say it's not.
 
i think it was always happening you just didn't notice it.
then you changed ATF and started feeling/listening for changes in the shifting and then noticed the issues

atf regardless of brand should not be black and if it is that a problem,

I would be doing multiple changes using the cheapest atf i could find, probably maxlife form wallyworld

+1000 on changing the filter, it is probably full of crud from the sub par oem T-IV fluid breaking down
 
According to my Transtec app, your Sienna has the Aisin U151E transmission. These are known to be VERY reliable, long-lived units. I have one in a similar vintage Lexus myself, and service my mother's car with a slightly modified version of it (Equinox, as Bgallagher mentioned). I have conversed with many owners of this unit at ToyotaNation and ClubLexus and there are very, very few real problems with them ever. Our Lexus unit runs like new and has 1/4 million miles on it (I use MaxLife in it). This is not in in any way atypical for these transmissions.

a) They run GREAT on MaxLife.
b) T-IV is "nothing special."
c) Sounds like the Amsoil is very incompatible (or something else, see below).

As a start, I would NOT do a drain/fill. You will leave the Amsoil in and continue to dilute your new good fluid each time. Three drain/fills will leave up to 20% old fluid behind. You will use the same amount of fluid or a little more vs. a line swap and have ~99% new fluid.

As mentioned, it is fairly simple to do a flush/swap/exchange yourself at home with some tubing, two buckets, and two hose barbs at your cooler lines at your radiator. I would take all of the mis-matched fluid mix in it out. You do want to start with a drain/fill, though, so you have as close to a fresh pan to pump from when you start.

I used to live in NYC and know in some places, working on your car yourself is just not practical, so if not, take 3 gallons of MaxLife to your mechanic and have him swap it via the cooler lines. It is under $20/gallon at Walmart.

Like MolaKule said, the color comments are still worrying. Dark fluid is usually friction material wearing/burning. I would be worried the transmission has been low in the past if that is the case. When checking the fill, the engine needs to be running and the fluid warm; checking it not running can result in running it low and damaging friction material. The description of your post-Amsoil drain/fill also could be a low fluid condition.

Another view on this is reasonable fluid can look "black" in a container peaked through the cap or when pouring in a stream. A better judge is a "drop test" where you take out the dipstick (hope you have one in your application, some do not) and drop a blob of fluid onto a clean white paper towel or even white bond paper. The fluid will migrate into the paper, and contaminants should show on the peripheral diameter of the drop. Color and contamination can be judged much better.
 
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Maxlife is synthetic, cheap, and should work great in your Toyota. Do the cooler line flush to swap out all the fluid until you see bright red coming out. 3 gallons should be plenty. Once you do it the first time you will have no trouble in 30k doing it again. I should've snapped some pics doing my Corolla but it's something you can google and I'm sure someone has a write up how to do it on your van.
 
Power steering I've never done that way unless replacing a pump. I just do the reservoir suck and fill because it's easier. This way would be much better. I'll have to try it on the other cars. The Corolla is electric power steering.
 
The very dark color is typical for T-IV; new T-IV looks burgundy.

I've worked on a few of these and they all shift it a bit "mushy," IMO. I usually drain the pan and do a fluid exchange. On average, I use about 11 quarts of new T-IV from the dealer and they shift fine.

My wholesale cost on T-IV is less than Maxlife and I usually suggest a flush every 30k.
 
I flushed our 13 Corolla at about 5k and again at about 35k. Just did it again last night with just under 70k. It was factory filled with WS which was also kind of a burgundy color. Nothing against the Toyota fluid, but I don't get it for wholesale haha so for me, maxlife works great. $20/ gallon at any Autozone is nice and it worked great in the trans and power steering in my old Camry. Does just fine in the trans in the Corolla too. Camry was a dexron spec but with new filter and pan gasket, and cooler line flush with maxlife, the trans shifted smoother than I ever remember. That car is gone now though. Sold it. Those also have a front differential...
 
Thank you all for your replies.

I wish I had read some before doing another drain & fill using Type IV again. With every drain & fill, the tranny would shift smoother. But after a few hundred miles, it would start to feel choppy. So I'm going to see how the T-IV does.

If it's still giving me trouble, I'll probably do a tranny flush using the line method. It is difficult to work on my car b/c I live in Manhattan but I can manage to figure something out.

Can anyone comment on the shifting nature of this Sienna (04-06)? Do shifts feel pretty slow in general? I know the throttle lacks feel of any sort so it's hard to modulate the revs (unlike Honda's for eg). Also, does anyone else experience this transmission shifting to 1st under 10mph during creep speeds? For instance, when I get to a speed bump, I slow down in 2nd gear, then as soon as I apply the throttle, it downshifts to 1st and back to 2nd right away. It's very annoying.

The AW unit in my CX-9 was perfect. It would hold gears, never shift too early.
 
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