55w H11 halogen fogs to HID. Is 55w HID needed?

[Lolvoguy]

On the focus in my sig, I'd like to upgrade to a nice bright set of fogs in 3000k temp HID's.

recently online I found a vendor who sells 35w HID kits in 3000k for my Focus fog lights. Only problem is, I noticed that from stock, my car runs 55w H11 bulbs.

My question is, do I need to run a 55w H11 HID kit for the best performance? I know they run hotter so in theory I should be able to handle the higher output

thanks in advance

 

[bbhero]

Are your headlights HID??

If so... Then I really don't see the need if you already have HID headlights. I have HID headlights 3000 lumens and regular halogen fog lights 1350 lumens each and I can see very very well with this set up. So I wouldn't see the need for both lights needing to be HIDs. But if you upgrade to HID foglights.... Get a very good brand to do so.

 

[JHZR2]

How many lumens does a 35W HID make vs a 55W halogen? Id start there.

But the bigger question Id think is if the headlight assembly is designed for HID. If not, it could create dangerous glare.

Im not as much of the opinions that this is a huge concern like some others are. I mean, old fashioned DOT sealed beams are rough to look at coming at you on a road. You don't look at/into a light. So a decently cutoff light with better output may have some safety advantages that outweigh the boogeyman they call glare. But Im not really one to make a decision, and so the only HIDs I have are OEM.

But it may be a greater consideration actually on fogs!

 

[slacktide_bitog]

NO NO NO NO
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

Do NOT use HID bulbs in lamps not designed for them. Here is a good site from someone named Daniel Stern (not related to the Home Alone robber!). an expert in automotive lighting.

check this out

Instead, paint them yellow and use a high performance H11 like Philips Xtreme Vision or GE Nighthawk Xenon/Megalight Ultra.

More info on yellow lights and how to color them yellow, also from Stern's site.

He also has a good page on general information about fogs

Here is a good price on the GE Megalight Ultra H11
MUCH cheaper than buying the identical Nighthawk Xenon on Amazon

 

[Lolvoguy]

whoa, easy there guys.

I only plan on doing the fog lights in the stock location (very close to the ground...not glaring for oncoming traffic). Not the low or high beams. So yes, I understand the issues with them as lows and high beams, so I think I've avoided those issues. This is only intended to be AUXILIARY lighting during excessive rain/snow/fog conditions, NOT constant lighting I'll be using everyday.



Originally Posted By: JHZR2
How many lumens does a 35W HID make vs a 55W halogen? Id start there.



I like how you think...and yes, that's exactly my question

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Are your headlights HID??

If so... Then I really don't see the need if you already have HID headlights. I have HID headlights 3000 lumens and regular halogen fog lights 1350 lumens each and I can see very very well with this set up. So I wouldn't see the need for both lights needing to be HIDs. But if you upgrade to HID foglights.... Get a very good brand to do so.


No, I do not have HID anything on this car. It's a stock 07 Focus sedan. It doesn't even have LED;s anywhere on the car

 

[bbhero]

Well my 35 watt HIDs are 3000 lumens.. I may well be wrong but I rather doubt 55w halogen lights would do more than that. Hmmm... Is interesting though. I'm going to look up my fog lights and see what the wattage is on them. My fog lights are set for 55 watt halogen too. They are rated for 1350 lumens. So there is the difference between the 35w HID and 55w halogen fog lights.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well my 35 watt HIDs are 3000 lumens.. I may well be wrong but I rather doubt 55w halogen lights would do more than that. Hmmm... Is interesting though. I'm going to look up my fog lights and see what the wattage is on them. My fog lights are set for 55 watt halogen too. They are rated for 1350 lumens. So there is the difference between the 35w HID and 55w halogen fog lights.


So my speculative concern is that while road materials seem to primarily absorb light, rather than reflect it (this can be confirmed by the reflects nice and material luminance values found at sources such as this: http://www.secement.org/PDFs/SN2458.pdf), but all the same, a low-lying beam, aimed downward, might create a decent reflection off the ground which could bounce in undesirable locations. While high and low beams are meant to project outward at some set of relative angles and beam layout such that the foreground and long distance are properly and safely illuminated, fogs may not be as well constrained, and so putting more than double the lumens from a fog light might really do something bad.

I'm not as concerned about the local higher illumination making your eyes less sensitive to the long distance issues - while I get the theory, poor illumination nearby enables consistent threats of local items that are tougher to see due to total local illumination. Fogs might just give a dangerous bounce that creates a worse angle of incoming light than a headlight would...

 

[Lolvoguy]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: bbhero
Well my 35 watt HIDs are 3000 lumens.. I may well be wrong but I rather doubt 55w halogen lights would do more than that. Hmmm... Is interesting though. I'm going to look up my fog lights and see what the wattage is on them. My fog lights are set for 55 watt halogen too. They are rated for 1350 lumens. So there is the difference between the 35w HID and 55w halogen fog lights.


So my speculative concern is that while road materials seem to primarily absorb light, rather than reflect it (this can be confirmed by the reflects nice and material luminance values found at sources such as this: http://www.secement.org/PDFs/SN2458.pdf), but all the same, a low-lying beam, aimed downward, might create a decent reflection off the ground which could bounce in undesirable locations. While high and low beams are meant to project outward at some set of relative angles and beam layout such that the foreground and long distance are properly and safely illuminated, fogs may not be as well constrained, and so putting more than double the lumens from a fog light might really do something bad.

I'm not as concerned about the local higher illumination making your eyes less sensitive to the long distance issues - while I get the theory, poor illumination nearby enables consistent threats of local items that are tougher to see due to total local illumination. Fogs might just give a dangerous bounce that creates a worse angle of incoming light than a headlight would...


what do you mean by "undesireable locations"? do you mean for other drivers?

All I know is, that when you have a decent set of fogs, they really many snowy/reainy and foggy conditions MUCH easier to see through. I have noticed this first hand with the yellow H11 55w bulbs I'm currently running. No longer do I have that "white screen" where the highs and lows are projected at a place somewhere in front of my windshield that I cannot see through. instead I have NO reflective screen and things are highlighted in yellow...a color that's easier to see through as well as easier on other drivers' eyes, should they get an eyeful of it.

 

[bbhero]

I think what JZR2 is thinking that high lowered fog lights could very well blind other incoming drivers. Very bright fog lights could also bring about the possibility of being so strong in their illumination that they have the opposite effect leading to not seeing potential threats that are close in proximity. Which makes good sense to me too. . I really think you would be far better served in getting an aftermarket HID headlight kit that has ALL the proper parts to make it DOT safe and more effective in all weather conditions. Truth is... Most vehicles are going with HIDs now. Three years ago I noticed that not all too many people had them. Now... I see them a whole lot now. These HIDs are becoming standard OEM equipment in many newer vehicles. Or it is that the halogens are set up in a new fashion that makes 1500 lumens FAR brighter than that number was just 5 yrs ago.

 

[HerrStig]

A couple of 7 inch Cibe fog lamps would produce a nice pattern, but mounting them on new vehicles is difficult.

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
I think what JZR2 is thinking that high lowered fog lights could very well blind other incoming drivers. Very bright fog lights could also bring about the possibility of being so strong in their illumination that they have the opposite effect leading to not seeing potential threats that are close in proximity. Which makes good sense to me too. . I really think you would be far better served in getting an aftermarket HID headlight kit that has ALL the proper parts to make it DOT safe and more effective in all weather conditions. Truth is... Most vehicles are going with HIDs now. Three years ago I noticed that not all too many people had them. Now... I see them a whole lot now. These HIDs are becoming standard OEM equipment in many newer vehicles. Or it is that the halogens are set up in a new fashion that makes 1500 lumens FAR brighter than that number was just 5 yrs ago.


yeah. Outputting 3000 lumens from a lamp designed for 1300 means that if we assume reflectivity off the surface to be 10%, we have 300 vs 130 lumens reflected off the road in a direction towards other drivers.

And unlike headlights which have more of a defined cutoff and beam design, these may not.

So think pool table - hit the ball, bounces off the bumper and goes away at a direction proportional to the angle it came in at. Now take bright, scattered light, let some bounce off the roadway at an angle more severe than a headlight, and it bounces back up at an angle more severe towards drivers closer (so less dissipation).

Just my speculative concept... And again, Im not one of those "the world is ending because you put HIDs in a halogen projector" types... But some things like HID fogs and HID reflector housings, don't make a ton of sense to me...

 

[Lolvoguy]

Ah yes, I agree. but this car is just a Focus. I'm not intending to spend that kind of money on it. The HID fogs are the most I'm willing to spend on something I'm going to use sparingly anyway.

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
A couple of 7 inch Cibe fog lamps would produce a nice pattern, but mounting them on new vehicles is difficult.


I also totally agree. I had a set on my 81 Volvo many years ago. Boy were they powerful. Sure they were probably not aligned properly, but back in the 90's nobody really cared

 

[HerrStig]

Originally Posted By: Lolvoguy
Ah yes, I agree. but this car is just a Focus. I'm not intending to spend that kind of money on it. The HID fogs are the most I'm willing to spend on something I'm going to use sparingly anyway.

Originally Posted By: HerrStig
A couple of 7 inch Cibe fog lamps would tproduce a nice pattern, but mounting them on new vehicles is difficult.


I also totally agree. I had a set on my 81 Volvo many years ago. Boy were they powerful. Sure they were probably not aligned properly, but back in the 90's nobody really cared
I had a set of 7 inch Cibe Oscars on a 76 242 with the Volvo rally light mounts which stuck out from behind the grill and a set of Cibe H4 headlamps to go with them. 4 speed with OD, limited slip, Koni struts and Volvo alloy wheels. I really liked that car, but NE salt was not good to it.

 

[meep]

to answer the OP, is the kit a projector housing, or just a drop-in bulb? If it's a projector housing that goes with the HID bulbs, chances are it may control the upper cutoff well enough not to glare into oncoming drivers. But if it's just a bulb, forget it. You won't be able to control the light, and you won't be happy with it.

a 35w HID can output 3000 lumens, a 55w halogen can output 1000. It's not just that there's a potential for unfocused light, it's that there's a potential for LOTS of unfocused light.

The only HID conversion I have ever been pleased with myself used projector housings. The others I quickly became disappointed and returned to halogen.

You may be able to do an HIR (yes, R) bulb swap into the fog housing for greater output with same focus. add yellow filter to the lens and that can be excellent upgrade.

 

[Gasbuggy]

My V has a large set of fogs, I replaced the bulbs with 9005s, took minimal modifications. I tested them out by following a family member, then passed them head on. No problems with affecting other drivers vision at night. Man are they bright though.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Originally Posted By: bbhero
I think what JZR2 is thinking that high lowered fog lights could very well blind other incoming drivers.


Yes, that's the biggest concern with this plan. HID headlamps themselves can be blinding when reflected off wet roadways or puddles -- HIDs in halogen fog lamps, which will already have relatively poor optical control, will likely result in a very overpowering foreground light pattern that will reduce your distance vision and cause a lot of wet road blindness to oncoming traffic.

HID headlamps are somewhat common these days, but there's a reason why you never see HID fog lamps, even from the factory. That much light that close to the ground is simply counter-productive, for the driver and for others.

Driving towards your own car and declaring it good is not a valid test. You cannot presume to cover all of the roadway conditions with that test nor every other drivers' set of eyes with that test. What may seem okay to you on your neighborhood street may be disability glare to someone else on a wet puddled road.

OP, suggestions of dedicated lamp housings are good ones for your situation.

 

[DrAdmin]

it would be:
25w Fog Light HID Kit a most reasonable 2400 LM for 4000K; 2 times more then ordinary H11 bulb ...