Now just think about it....
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Originally Posted By: FowVay
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why?
noun, plural analogies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3. Biology. an analogous relationship.
4. Linguistics. the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet. a form resulting from such a process.
5. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
I would argue that there is more validity to the comparison than many would like to admit. Which in and of itself is a sad statement re: contemporary society.
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why?
noun, plural analogies.
1. a similarity between like features of two things, on which a comparison may be based: the analogy between the heart and a pump.
2. similarity or comparability: I see no analogy between your problem and mine.
3. Biology. an analogous relationship.
4. Linguistics. the process by which words or phrases are created or re-formed according to existing patterns in the language, as when shoon was re-formed as shoes, when -ize is added to nouns like winter to form verbs, or when a child says foots for feet. a form resulting from such a process.
5. Logic. a form of reasoning in which one thing is inferred to be similar to another thing in a certain respect, on the basis of the known similarity between the things in other respects.
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
I would argue that there is more validity to the comparison than many would like to admit. Which in and of itself is a sad statement re: contemporary society.
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
We know.
And it functions by zooming in on a few salient points and ignoring everything of real value. Which is the problem.
Yes, most retirement homes are bad -- much worse than they should be. But if you really think there's an actual, serious argument to be made that they're comparable to actual prisons, the most charitable thing to infer is that you simply don't understand how utterly horrific a prison is.
A bad retirement home is one where you're usually bored, the staff is often negligent, and the conditions are sometimes dirty. A prison is a place where you're under constant threat of violence, the staff basically owns your every move (except when they're failing to protect you from getting shanked), you couldn't leave if you wanted to, outsiders can rarely visit you, you have almost no privacy, and your living space is... a prison cell. To suggest that those are comparable, or that a few meals and showers make up the difference, is simply dishonest.
By all means, let us focus on the problems we have as a society, and let us say loudly that our treatment of our elders is one of them. Let's just not lie to each other in the process.
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
We know.
And it functions by zooming in on a few salient points and ignoring everything of real value. Which is the problem.
Yes, most retirement homes are bad -- much worse than they should be. But if you really think there's an actual, serious argument to be made that they're comparable to actual prisons, the most charitable thing to infer is that you simply don't understand how utterly horrific a prison is.
A bad retirement home is one where you're usually bored, the staff is often negligent, and the conditions are sometimes dirty. A prison is a place where you're under constant threat of violence, the staff basically owns your every move (except when they're failing to protect you from getting shanked), you couldn't leave if you wanted to, outsiders can rarely visit you, you have almost no privacy, and your living space is... a prison cell. To suggest that those are comparable, or that a few meals and showers make up the difference, is simply dishonest.
By all means, let us focus on the problems we have as a society, and let us say loudly that our treatment of our elders is one of them. Let's just not lie to each other in the process.
Originally Posted By: CourierDriver
This seems to make sense...
Actually, it doesn't. While there are a few senior care facilities that are bad, the good ones far outweigh them. Prisons are places where no one in their right mind would ever want to be. Showers every day? Nope. Access to a library? For some, yes. For most, no. Same with computers, TV, gym, medical attention, etc. Life in prison isn't as nice as Hollywood makes it out to be.
We volunteer some of our time at care facilities with our therapy dogs. With no exceptions in our experience, the senior care facilities we deal with are decent places with good food, caring staff, and rooms far larger than a prison cell.
While I'd never want to "live" in either facility, comparing prisons to senior care facilities is absurd.
This seems to make sense...
Actually, it doesn't. While there are a few senior care facilities that are bad, the good ones far outweigh them. Prisons are places where no one in their right mind would ever want to be. Showers every day? Nope. Access to a library? For some, yes. For most, no. Same with computers, TV, gym, medical attention, etc. Life in prison isn't as nice as Hollywood makes it out to be.
We volunteer some of our time at care facilities with our therapy dogs. With no exceptions in our experience, the senior care facilities we deal with are decent places with good food, caring staff, and rooms far larger than a prison cell.
While I'd never want to "live" in either facility, comparing prisons to senior care facilities is absurd.
Originally Posted By: d00df00d
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
We know.
And it functions by zooming in on a few salient points and ignoring everything of real value. Which is the problem.
Yes, most retirement homes are bad -- much worse than they should be. But if you really think there's an actual, serious argument to be made that they're comparable to actual prisons, the most charitable thing to infer is that you simply don't understand how utterly horrific a prison is.
A bad retirement home is one where you're usually bored, the staff is often negligent, and the conditions are sometimes dirty. A prison is a place where you're under constant threat of violence, the staff basically owns your every move (except when they're failing to protect you from getting shanked), you couldn't leave if you wanted to, outsiders can rarely visit you, you have almost no privacy, and your living space is... a prison cell. To suggest that those are comparable, or that a few meals and showers make up the difference, is simply dishonest.
By all means, let us focus on the problems we have as a society, and let us say loudly that our treatment of our elders is one of them. Let's just not lie to each other in the process.
Satire - Definition of
Good grief, lighten up!
Originally Posted By: bornconfuzd
The comparison the op linked to was never meant as an argument for action but only as an illustration of how badly, (at least), some elderly are treated in comparison to how well, (at least), some prisoners are treated.
We know.
And it functions by zooming in on a few salient points and ignoring everything of real value. Which is the problem.
Yes, most retirement homes are bad -- much worse than they should be. But if you really think there's an actual, serious argument to be made that they're comparable to actual prisons, the most charitable thing to infer is that you simply don't understand how utterly horrific a prison is.
A bad retirement home is one where you're usually bored, the staff is often negligent, and the conditions are sometimes dirty. A prison is a place where you're under constant threat of violence, the staff basically owns your every move (except when they're failing to protect you from getting shanked), you couldn't leave if you wanted to, outsiders can rarely visit you, you have almost no privacy, and your living space is... a prison cell. To suggest that those are comparable, or that a few meals and showers make up the difference, is simply dishonest.
By all means, let us focus on the problems we have as a society, and let us say loudly that our treatment of our elders is one of them. Let's just not lie to each other in the process.
Satire - Definition of
Good grief, lighten up!
Pop_Rivit,
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
A friend of mine discovered that his Mother was in rapid mental decline. While attempting to straighten out her affairs, he discovered that she had not filed taxes for several years. He was very concerned about this, and was spending too much of his efforts on that problem, and did not have enough time and energy to address finding proper care.
My advice was for him to drop dime to the Feds on her. If convicted, she would receive excellent care for the rest of her life. He didn't take me seriously......But he did realize that spending time, energy and money on her tax problems was pointless, and there would be no repercussions.
My advice was for him to drop dime to the Feds on her. If convicted, she would receive excellent care for the rest of her life. He didn't take me seriously......But he did realize that spending time, energy and money on her tax problems was pointless, and there would be no repercussions.
Originally Posted By: FowVay
I'm glad to see that there are a few people with a brain left on this forum. Thanks guys for understanding my initial comment regarding the link.
What an incredibly stupid comment! The implication being that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't have a brain!
Nah, just turning the tables on you bud. I don't really care what you think. On the other hand, you might want to consider how you phrased that.
I'm glad to see that there are a few people with a brain left on this forum. Thanks guys for understanding my initial comment regarding the link.
What an incredibly stupid comment! The implication being that anyone who doesn't agree with you doesn't have a brain!
Nah, just turning the tables on you bud. I don't really care what you think. On the other hand, you might want to consider how you phrased that.
To comment on the Original Post!
I got a kick out of it. At first I laughed, but then I saw the more serious side and realized that in fact we do treat a lot of prisoners too well, I will say more so on the federal level, while a lot of seniors get short shrift.
If that little ditty helps some people think about it, great.
I got a kick out of it. At first I laughed, but then I saw the more serious side and realized that in fact we do treat a lot of prisoners too well, I will say more so on the federal level, while a lot of seniors get short shrift.
If that little ditty helps some people think about it, great.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Pop_Rivit,
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
I think he (and missus) have done so for 20+ years.
Also (BITOG response) Mrs Pop_Rivit drives a stickshift/standard
)
And (my favourite part), while childless, they choose to godfather/godmother/mentor 2 kids...
P.S. Saturday/31st/Halloween was a rainy day here so i went with my kids inside our building: while some people where not prepared (really not expecting kids...) one couple said we didn't see kids in 7 years; other couple: "you are the first kids in this building in 20 years; and we prepared each and every year with candy but no kids...";
kind of sad; neoghbors not knowing/seeing/helping each other....
Pop_Rivit,
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
I think he (and missus) have done so for 20+ years.
Also (BITOG response) Mrs Pop_Rivit drives a stickshift/standard
)And (my favourite part), while childless, they choose to godfather/godmother/mentor 2 kids...
P.S. Saturday/31st/Halloween was a rainy day here so i went with my kids inside our building: while some people where not prepared (really not expecting kids...) one couple said we didn't see kids in 7 years; other couple: "you are the first kids in this building in 20 years; and we prepared each and every year with candy but no kids...";
kind of sad; neoghbors not knowing/seeing/helping each other....
Originally Posted By: pandus13
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Pop_Rivit,
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
I think he (and missus) have done so for 20+ years.
Also (BITOG response) Mrs Pop_Rivit drives a stickshift/standard)
And (my favourite part), while childless, they choose to godfather/godmother/mentor 2 kids...
P.S. Saturday/31st/Halloween was a rainy day here so i went with my kids inside our building: while some people where not prepared (really not expecting kids...) one couple said we didn't see kids in 7 years; other couple: "you are the first kids in this building in 20 years; and we prepared each and every year with candy but no kids...";
kind of sad; neoghbors not knowing/seeing/helping each other....
How do you know him so well ?
No kids ? Mentor kids ?
My neighborhood has kids but after knocking on my door and my German Shepard going crazy.... the kids and parents will quickly disappear.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Pop_Rivit,
Nice that you take your therapy dogs to visit people needing a visit.
I think he (and missus) have done so for 20+ years.
Also (BITOG response) Mrs Pop_Rivit drives a stickshift/standard
)And (my favourite part), while childless, they choose to godfather/godmother/mentor 2 kids...
P.S. Saturday/31st/Halloween was a rainy day here so i went with my kids inside our building: while some people where not prepared (really not expecting kids...) one couple said we didn't see kids in 7 years; other couple: "you are the first kids in this building in 20 years; and we prepared each and every year with candy but no kids...";
kind of sad; neoghbors not knowing/seeing/helping each other....
How do you know him so well ?
No kids ? Mentor kids ?
My neighborhood has kids but after knocking on my door and my German Shepard going crazy.... the kids and parents will quickly disappear.
Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
How do you know him so well ?
No kids ? Mentor kids ?
just good memory from his own posts. still, every time he posts I imagine one of the "Grumpy Old Men" movie...
How do you know him so well ?
No kids ? Mentor kids ?
just good memory from his own posts. still, every time he posts I imagine one of the "Grumpy Old Men" movie...
dnewton3
Staff member
It's funny because of irony. It's sadly true to a degree greater than we'd like to admit.
I liked it.
I liked it.
Originally Posted By: FowVay
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why is this a 'stupid analogy'?
I believe that prisoners get better health care than veterans.....is that another 'stupid analogy'?
PS: Even though this is posted in the 'humor' section there is nothing funny about it...
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why is this a 'stupid analogy'?
I believe that prisoners get better health care than veterans.....is that another 'stupid analogy'?
PS: Even though this is posted in the 'humor' section there is nothing funny about it...
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: FowVay
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why is this a 'stupid analogy'?
I believe that prisoners get better health care than veterans.....is that another 'stupid analogy'?
PS: Even though this is posted in the 'humor' section there is nothing funny about it...
A friend of mine works in the Federal system. You would be wrong about the healthcare. The administering of simple things such as antibiotics requires an act of Congress. Pain, due to even the most horrific circumstances, is treated by Motrin.
Aside from a few medical prisons, treatment for chronic illness or advanced disorders is literally nonexistant. He's dealing with an inmate right now who has been sent to the hospital 27 times in the past 2 months, costing the prison and US Marshals a significant amount of money. They're paying major overtime to have him constantly supervised while he is at the hospital. He can't get any approvals to pay the hospital to treat the asthma, can't get approvals to pay for the prison to administer the proper treatment, and has been arguing with the Designation Center all of this time to get the guy transferred to a Medical Prison.
He has another guy who is a diabetic with a 4 inch open wound in his leg. The nurses keep putting gauze in the wound and tearing it open further when they change the gauze. They have no equipment, training, or medicine to deal with this problem. Same situation as the other guy. Can't pay for the hospital to do it, can't get permission or money for the treatment, can't get him transferred.
He was recently placed under a "soft" arrest by the US marshals via a bench warrant because there's an inmate in the hospital who was supposed to be transferred for his re-trial. Thanks to ridiculous bureaucracy, he was unable to furnish the Court with any of the documents or details of the inmate's hospitalization, and unable to present the inmate for a standing Writ from a Federal Judge. Nothing that goes on his record. He was simply taken by each arm by 3 Marshals and given a free ride down the Courthouse to answer questions he had no answer to. Naturally, he has received a reprimand by the Bureau of Prisons for leaving the place without permission, and is currently under administrative discipline pending the outcome of the investigation that has now been launched against him.
Treating prisoners poorly does not always have the desired effect. Poor treatment of prisoners had historically resulted in a sharp increase in bad and violent behavior. He had to dismiss an officer who began doing regular hardcore shakedowns that resulted in a unit that had no major disciplinary issues in 7 months turn into a place where violence occurred on an every-other-day basis.
He's come to appreciate the fact that he's a beekeeper, and it works out better for everyone, especially the safety of his officers if he doesn't going kicking at the hive. The previous warden he worked under was a real fire and brimstone guy, and the prison was so bad that two loaded firearms made their way in , and two escape attempts were made by inmates that had less than 3 years left on their sentences.
Under the new warden, not only have major incidents all but disappeared, but the recidivism rate of inmates released from his facility has decreased by 67%.
It's like he told me one time: "If I have a dog in a cage, and I know I have to stand right there and open that cage up one day, I'm going to make sure I raise a good dog, not a mean one."
He and the warden have a lot of haters inside the system, but nobody can argue with their results.
Originally Posted By: FowVay
What an incredibly stupid analogy!
Why is this a 'stupid analogy'?
I believe that prisoners get better health care than veterans.....is that another 'stupid analogy'?
PS: Even though this is posted in the 'humor' section there is nothing funny about it...
A friend of mine works in the Federal system. You would be wrong about the healthcare. The administering of simple things such as antibiotics requires an act of Congress. Pain, due to even the most horrific circumstances, is treated by Motrin.
Aside from a few medical prisons, treatment for chronic illness or advanced disorders is literally nonexistant. He's dealing with an inmate right now who has been sent to the hospital 27 times in the past 2 months, costing the prison and US Marshals a significant amount of money. They're paying major overtime to have him constantly supervised while he is at the hospital. He can't get any approvals to pay the hospital to treat the asthma, can't get approvals to pay for the prison to administer the proper treatment, and has been arguing with the Designation Center all of this time to get the guy transferred to a Medical Prison.
He has another guy who is a diabetic with a 4 inch open wound in his leg. The nurses keep putting gauze in the wound and tearing it open further when they change the gauze. They have no equipment, training, or medicine to deal with this problem. Same situation as the other guy. Can't pay for the hospital to do it, can't get permission or money for the treatment, can't get him transferred.
He was recently placed under a "soft" arrest by the US marshals via a bench warrant because there's an inmate in the hospital who was supposed to be transferred for his re-trial. Thanks to ridiculous bureaucracy, he was unable to furnish the Court with any of the documents or details of the inmate's hospitalization, and unable to present the inmate for a standing Writ from a Federal Judge. Nothing that goes on his record. He was simply taken by each arm by 3 Marshals and given a free ride down the Courthouse to answer questions he had no answer to. Naturally, he has received a reprimand by the Bureau of Prisons for leaving the place without permission, and is currently under administrative discipline pending the outcome of the investigation that has now been launched against him.
Treating prisoners poorly does not always have the desired effect. Poor treatment of prisoners had historically resulted in a sharp increase in bad and violent behavior. He had to dismiss an officer who began doing regular hardcore shakedowns that resulted in a unit that had no major disciplinary issues in 7 months turn into a place where violence occurred on an every-other-day basis.
He's come to appreciate the fact that he's a beekeeper, and it works out better for everyone, especially the safety of his officers if he doesn't going kicking at the hive. The previous warden he worked under was a real fire and brimstone guy, and the prison was so bad that two loaded firearms made their way in , and two escape attempts were made by inmates that had less than 3 years left on their sentences.
Under the new warden, not only have major incidents all but disappeared, but the recidivism rate of inmates released from his facility has decreased by 67%.
It's like he told me one time: "If I have a dog in a cage, and I know I have to stand right there and open that cage up one day, I'm going to make sure I raise a good dog, not a mean one."
He and the warden have a lot of haters inside the system, but nobody can argue with their results.
That is what the prison system should be, isn't it? A place to re-educate offenders? the ones that are beyond saving, should get life or death sentences
I could use the same argument about most schools.
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