Alignment Guys - Question about Alignment

[CarbonSteel]

I recently had to have the LF outer tie-rod replaced as well as the LF body mount due to failed parts from the factory (at less than 3200 miles). Both of the front tires had to be replaced as well due to excessive abnormal wear. I received the alignment numbers (before and after) and would like input on them from someone who has alignment experience. Are the after numbers OK? Am I good on this alignment?

There is a slight pull to the right when the steering wheel is released and I have heard this is intentional to force a vehicle to drift off to the right side of the road to prevent it from going into oncoming traffic (not sure if this is an old wives tale or not). I prefer the drift to be neutral (not pulling in either direction).

Here are the numbers:

BEFORE:

LF Camber = 0.1
LF Caster = 0.3
LF Toe = 0.65
RF Camber = 0.0
RF Caster = 0.3
RF Toe = 0.66


AFTER:
LF Camber = 0.1
LF Caster = 0.4
LF Toe = 0.05
RF Camber = 0.0
RF Caster = 0.0
RF Toe = 0.0

 

[Johnny2Bad]

" ... There is a slight pull to the right when the steering wheel is released and I have heard this is intentional to force a vehicle to drift off to the right side of the road to prevent it from going into oncoming traffic (not sure if this is an old wives tale or not). I prefer the drift to be neutral (not pulling in either direction) ..."

The pull is because there was no load on the suspension when they did the alignment. You are supposed to sit in the drivers' seat, have a tech sit in the drivers' seat, or load up the drivers' seat with a static load (eg 5 20kg flour sacks = 212 LBs).

You can ask the dealer to put a tech in the seat while they do the alignment, specialized alignment shops are more likely to agree, though.

Can't say much about your numbers ... didn't they give you sheet indicating the factory recommended numbers and how close your vehicle came?

Did you use *Brand New* tires on the front (or all 4 wheels if 4-wheel alignment, typical on Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) vehicles)?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Can't say much about your numbers ... didn't they give you sheet indicating the factory recommended numbers and how close your vehicle came?
No; I only received the before and after numbers--I am hoping that someone might know what they should be.

Originally Posted By: Johnny2Bad
Did you use *Brand New* tires on the front (or all 4 wheels if 4-wheel alignment, typical on Independent Rear Suspension (IRS) vehicles)?
Yes; they removed the OEM tires and replaced them with new Michelins of the same size and type.

 

[zzyzzx]

I also think you need to be sitting on the car when they do the alignment. Or tell them how much weight to put in there. It's in the alignment procedures for my 1995 Ford Escort's factory service manual.

 

[eljefino]

The crown of the road can send you right.

Get on a 3 lane interstate and hang out in the middle. Should be neutral crown there, assuming they have some sort of median drainage system.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Your RF caster better be 3 to 4 degrees not 0.3 or zero. That is wrong!

I cant believe the toe was .65 - undrivable.

Car will pull to right on a single crowned rd. See if it drives straight straddling the crown/ double line.

Tell the cop pulling you over I told you to do it

My '11 Ranger did not have the front two cab mounts tightened and One was missing the bolt and washer. Ive owned a few ford trucks and they are assembled terribly by UAW. Absolutely uncaring assemblers ( and I guess the factory management )

'91 F150: Trans not bolted to engine, 2001 ranger: trans x-member not bolted on one side of frame rail,driveshaft not balanced; 2011 Ranger: cab not bolted to frame; and I had a customer had a crown vic with one longitudinal link not bolted on the rear axle at all.

Which Truck?

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Your RF caster better be 3 to 4 degrees not 0.3 or zero. That is wrong!

Which Truck?
Thanks Arco--it is the F250 in my signature. I take it that you recommend that I have the alignment checked again (from an independent shop)?

 

[SwampSurvivor]

The problem with that is - most shops that do alignments aren't going to know any more about it than the dealer.

If you can find a good indy alignment shop, I'd go for that

Castor shouldn't be 0, though. .

 

[Cardenio327]

Agree with above posters: Caster shouldn't be 0.3 or 0.

I don't have the specs for 2015 yet, but most full size trucks typically ask for 4° to 7° of individual caster.

Your report that you posted shows that the truck came in with 0° cross caster and left with +0.4° cross caster, so whatever it was they did, it worsened the alignment.

Small vehicles typically require a cross caster of 0°.

Large vehicles such as your PSD need a slightly negative cross caster, typically -0.5°.

Negative cross caster causes the vehicle to pull to the left, and positive cross caster causes a pull to the right. The slight negative cross caster used on large vehicles helps counter the slope effect caused by the high highway crown used in USA.

Long story short, look for an alignment shop with a great reputation [extremely difficult to find], and ask if they have their 2015 firmware yet. If they don't have the firmware yet you can look up your alignment specs in your factory service manual, or you might be able to find them online.

 

[Cardenio327]

p.s. Looking over your alignment report again, they didn't even bother to get the steering wheel straight. LF and RF toe need to be exactly the same to get the steering wheel straight.

The newest specs I have for a F-250 4x4 are 2011:

individual camber: +0.15°
cross camber: 0.00°
individual caster: 3.50°
cross caster: 0.00°
total toe +0.10°
maximum thrust angle: 0.50°

A lot of newer large vehicles spec a cross caster of zero, so in that respect your truck went into alignment perfect and left pulling to the right.

 

[Merkava_4]

The fact that they gave you a print out of the alignment throws up a red flag from the get-go. That's the kind of stupid stuff tire shops do. If you want the truck aligned correctly, take the truck to have it aligned at a shop that specializes in alignments, suspension repair, and frame straightening; AKA a frame and wheel shop. If you see a bunch of Peterbilt and Freightliner trucks up on the racks, you're at the right place.

 

[edwardh1]

my toyotas and hondas have always been less sensitive to road crown- I like that, really nice neutral steering, no pull.
GM products in the 80s I owned, and my 90s Nissan would always pull to the right, irritating.

Does Toyota set their specs a little differently to avoid the pull to the right issue?

 

[exranger06]

Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The fact that they gave you a print out of the alignment throws up a red flag from the get-go. That's the kind of stupid stuff tire shops do.

Why is getting a print out stupid and how is it a red flag? I'd be more concerned if a shop refused to give a print out because the alignment could be way out of spec and you wouldn't know it. Every shop I've been to for alignments have always given me print outs, and I've never had issues with the car afterward.

 

[ARCOgraphite]

Originally Posted By: 2015_PSD
Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Your RF caster better be 3 to 4 degrees not 0.3 or zero. That is wrong!

Which Truck?
Thanks Arco--it is the F250 in my signature. I take it that you recommend that I have the alignment checked again (from an independent shop)?
I would just re-read your printout. Is this a Hunter aligner or ? The current (actual)toe is fine now( if in degrees). If you breathe hard on tire a youll get a fractional degree readout.

Just look at the caster again. Drive the car for a couple weeks and look at the tread to make sure its not feathering or cupping on either the inside or outside inch. Make sure both fronts and rears have equal pressure across the axle. On tricks just a bit of leaf sag will rear steer the truck as you are "pushing" the axle rearwards where the sag is. I'm saying rear ride height un-laden (ground to frame reference) is critical to be equal to have no rear steer.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: ARCOgraphite
Just look at the caster again. Drive the car for a couple weeks and look at the tread to make sure its not feathering or cupping on either the inside or outside inch.
BD Cardinal was kind enough to give me the 2015 alignment specifications and clearly the dealer (or the shop they use) is off the mark on caster. I **believe** that I have the HD suspension since I have the FX4 package and Rancho shocks.

What does this mean for tire and suspension wear to have the caster as far off as it is?

 

[DuckRyder]

Caster won't wear tires and camber has to be pretty extreme to wear tires.

Still it isn't right, take it back and tell them it is pulling.

FWIW - There is a difference in pulling and leading, if it goes pretty much straight and then eventually gradually goes of to the right thats pretty normal, if it goes right as soon as you let go of the wheel (r you have to maintain constable left input) that is a pull and it could be a tire.

With the right side showing goose eggs straight down the line, I almost wonder if something was not picking up correctly... But the last machine I messed with was a D111 (old).

 

[bdcardinal]

Check your email. If you give me the VIN, just need last 8 if that is easier, I can check and see for sure what suspension you have. The HD thing is a catch all because there were snow plow and camper options also.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Check your email. If you give me the VIN, just need last 8 if that is easier, I can check and see for sure what suspension you have. The HD thing is a catch all because there were snow plow and camper options also.
On its way

 

[bdcardinal]

DYAAE STANDARD DUTY FRT SUSPENSION

Weird I know.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
DYAAE STANDARD DUTY FRT SUSPENSION

Weird I know.
No worries and thanks! It tells me which set of numbers that apply to my truck.