While I would guess the skill of flying a learned skill and most likely a natural ability. Anyway I was watching the fire planes at the airport and after all these years of watching planes I wondered what is involved in learning a new aircraft ? Seems overwhelming. About 40 years ago a coworker taught flying lessons. So I would book demo flights and go for a ride. I liked it and got to steer the plane and go up and down. That is about all I know about aircraft.
Changing planes. as a pilot
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you are correct - lots of important differences in planes: high wing, low wing, multi-engine, retractable landing gear, etc etc etc. my brother is an instructor - and flies alot of different planes. and flying IFR (instrument flight rules) is a fair amount of work - you are under constant watch and control......
You are correct that there is lots to know about many things to successfully and safely fly an airplane. There were many times as an instructor that I would be asked to give someone a biennial flight review or an instrument competency check in an airplane I'd never flown. You can bet that before I instructed in the airplane I would use the ground portion of the BFR or ICC to not only check the student's knowledge, but also to teach myself the airplane. There were also times when my better judgement told me not to fly an airplane because of complex systems that I didn't know well enough in the case that something went wrong. Don't be a test pilot...
Wayne
Wayne
I have 0 desire to fly a plane I want to know how involved it is to change from lets say a 737 to a 787. 2 months training? 5 months training? Lets say we are pilots at United air lines and they say you are being promoted to a seat in a 787. Because of work I have been able to sit in the cockpits of several commercial jets and dang there are lots of knobs, buttons,and things to twist in there. It is easy to understand what they do but using then is different.
If you're already a pilot, at say, United Airlines, then you already have thousands of hours and years and years of experience. I had eleven years of flying fighter when I was hired. Taking a pilot at that skill and experience level from one airplane to another takes about 6 weeks in Denver.
Roughly; two weeks of ground school/systems, followed by a systems exam, then a week of procedural training on a simulator, followed by a procedures evaluation in that simulator, the a week of maneuvers training in a simulator (landings, engine failures, engine out work), with a maneuvers evaluation, then a week of advanced training in the simulator, with a final evaluation. There may be a few days to cover additional topics. The days run 10 -12 hours long, including a two hour brief, four hour simulator, hour debrief and additional reading/prep for each day.
Then, the pilot goes out and flies the airplane under the supervision of a specially trained captain. This takes another one to two weeks, depending on the airplane type (there are multiple requirements for number of hours, landings, approaches, regions).
In all, about two months. For an experienced airline pilot to switch from one platform to another.
Roughly; two weeks of ground school/systems, followed by a systems exam, then a week of procedural training on a simulator, followed by a procedures evaluation in that simulator, the a week of maneuvers training in a simulator (landings, engine failures, engine out work), with a maneuvers evaluation, then a week of advanced training in the simulator, with a final evaluation. There may be a few days to cover additional topics. The days run 10 -12 hours long, including a two hour brief, four hour simulator, hour debrief and additional reading/prep for each day.
Then, the pilot goes out and flies the airplane under the supervision of a specially trained captain. This takes another one to two weeks, depending on the airplane type (there are multiple requirements for number of hours, landings, approaches, regions).
In all, about two months. For an experienced airline pilot to switch from one platform to another.
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I'd like to go through the process of learning the flight simulator for something like a triple 7 or a 747.
I have a commercial and instrument rating but I only fly the small stuff. I flew unscheduled cargo for 5 years but that was a long time ago and was mostly single engine and dual engine prop planes in Alaska. We had no GPS and not much in the way of electronic aids. It was a lot of seat-of-the-pants flying. I've seen videos of these flight simulators and would sure like to fly one.
I have a commercial and instrument rating but I only fly the small stuff. I flew unscheduled cargo for 5 years but that was a long time ago and was mostly single engine and dual engine prop planes in Alaska. We had no GPS and not much in the way of electronic aids. It was a lot of seat-of-the-pants flying. I've seen videos of these flight simulators and would sure like to fly one.
Things happen very fast in the airline training world. Everyone already knows how to fly, so very little time is allowed for practicing normal takeoffs and landings.
Most of the time during training you are subjected to various system failures. In fact, many times the training starts with the simulator at the runway end, engines already running. You might start a takeoff only to abort because of an engine failure prior to V1 (takeoff safety speed). An engine failure after V1 means you are going (taking off) to handle the situation in-flight where you have time to configure the aircraft, run the checklists, and coordinate the emergency with everyone involved. These are the scenarios that are practiced and re-done many times so that a pilot's response is immediate and without hesitation. Losing an engine on takeoff means a slower rotation, keeping the airplane centered on the runway centerline with full rudder application, and maintaining the appropriate airspeed from rotation (VR) to the engine out speed (called V2) until 1000' above ground level at which time you begin the engine out procedures from memory, then follow it up with a checklist to ensure all safety items were accomplished. After that is accomplished, you coordinate your situation with Air Traffic Control, Company Dispatch, the Flight Attendents, and even the passengers by explaining the situation and what we are going to do.
After a safe landing. the instructor re-positions the airplane simulator to the runway end, and you, or the first officer, does it all over again. You might do this several times, take a 15 minute break, and go back into the simulator to work on another scenario for the next 2 hours to finish your day in the simulator. You are usually mentally exhausted by this time - so you head back to the hotel, take a short nap, study, go to dinner, study again, go to sleep and wake up early to go do it all again the next day.
You are evaulated every step of the way. You must be prepared, you must be supportive of your training partner, and you have to ignore any outside distractions in order to complete the training footprint on time. Many guys call training a "2 month hostage crisis" because you belong to the training program and are away from home for most of that time. Not a very pleasant process. Failure can be a career ender.
It takes about 6 months before a pilot is really comfortable with every aspect of his/her new airplane.
After initial qualification, you have to go back to the training center 9 months later (and every 9 months after that) to get re-checked on your emergency procedures and re-evaluated on your flying skills. You also get random flight checks on revenue flights from a airline check airman who evaluates your performance. The FAA will sometimes ride along to give you a line check to evaluate your skills. Throw in random drug and alcohol testing, background security checks, mental and physical evaluations every 6 months and you get some idea of just how closely our performance is supervised.
There are great joys to being a pilot, but most people don't understand what it takes to go through the training process and the rigors of learning a new aircraft type.
Most of the time during training you are subjected to various system failures. In fact, many times the training starts with the simulator at the runway end, engines already running. You might start a takeoff only to abort because of an engine failure prior to V1 (takeoff safety speed). An engine failure after V1 means you are going (taking off) to handle the situation in-flight where you have time to configure the aircraft, run the checklists, and coordinate the emergency with everyone involved. These are the scenarios that are practiced and re-done many times so that a pilot's response is immediate and without hesitation. Losing an engine on takeoff means a slower rotation, keeping the airplane centered on the runway centerline with full rudder application, and maintaining the appropriate airspeed from rotation (VR) to the engine out speed (called V2) until 1000' above ground level at which time you begin the engine out procedures from memory, then follow it up with a checklist to ensure all safety items were accomplished. After that is accomplished, you coordinate your situation with Air Traffic Control, Company Dispatch, the Flight Attendents, and even the passengers by explaining the situation and what we are going to do.
After a safe landing. the instructor re-positions the airplane simulator to the runway end, and you, or the first officer, does it all over again. You might do this several times, take a 15 minute break, and go back into the simulator to work on another scenario for the next 2 hours to finish your day in the simulator. You are usually mentally exhausted by this time - so you head back to the hotel, take a short nap, study, go to dinner, study again, go to sleep and wake up early to go do it all again the next day.
You are evaulated every step of the way. You must be prepared, you must be supportive of your training partner, and you have to ignore any outside distractions in order to complete the training footprint on time. Many guys call training a "2 month hostage crisis" because you belong to the training program and are away from home for most of that time. Not a very pleasant process. Failure can be a career ender.
It takes about 6 months before a pilot is really comfortable with every aspect of his/her new airplane.
After initial qualification, you have to go back to the training center 9 months later (and every 9 months after that) to get re-checked on your emergency procedures and re-evaluated on your flying skills. You also get random flight checks on revenue flights from a airline check airman who evaluates your performance. The FAA will sometimes ride along to give you a line check to evaluate your skills. Throw in random drug and alcohol testing, background security checks, mental and physical evaluations every 6 months and you get some idea of just how closely our performance is supervised.
There are great joys to being a pilot, but most people don't understand what it takes to go through the training process and the rigors of learning a new aircraft type.
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....and every bit of that training should be there. When a problem presents itself it may not be a one problem deal like in the simulator. There may be other details to deal with and this is the time that you discover if you're up to the task.
I only flew puddle jumpers but there were times when a problem presented itself at the worst possible moment. I can remember thinking that it would have been nice to have some flight simulator practice.
I only flew puddle jumpers but there were times when a problem presented itself at the worst possible moment. I can remember thinking that it would have been nice to have some flight simulator practice.
There's a lot to operating a big airplane.
I was a 747-400 pilot (sim) instructor and FAA check airman for UAL for five years, 1997-2002, before I went back to line flying and then returned to Active Duty. I am currently a 756/767 sim instructor for UAL.
Been through school five times in the airline business. 747, then A320, then 757, came back to the 320 when returning to United, then 757 to come back into our training center.
F-14 training took nine months to a year. Not only was the airplane more complex but there was a much broader set of missions and operating environment.
I was a 747-400 pilot (sim) instructor and FAA check airman for UAL for five years, 1997-2002, before I went back to line flying and then returned to Active Duty. I am currently a 756/767 sim instructor for UAL.
Been through school five times in the airline business. 747, then A320, then 757, came back to the 320 when returning to United, then 757 to come back into our training center.
F-14 training took nine months to a year. Not only was the airplane more complex but there was a much broader set of missions and operating environment.
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The Big Skill of the 21st Century is/will be emergency jink maneuvers to avoid colliding with a [censored] civilian drone some wanker is flying illegally.
Originally Posted By: Astro14
There's a lot to operating a big airplane.
I was a 747-400 pilot (sim) instructor and FAA check airman for UAL for five years, 1997-2002, before I went back to line flying and then returned to Active Duty. I am currently a 756/767 sim instructor for UAL.
Been through school five times in the airline business. 747, then A320, then 757, came back to the 320 when returning to United, then 757 to come back into our training center.
F-14 training took nine months to a year. Not only was the airplane more complex but there was a much broader set of missions and operating environment.
Amazing career! I toured the Denver UAL flight sim facility over 10 years ago, a very big place. United Airlines is bringing their Houston (smaller) operation to Denver to consolidate. So Denver gets even bigger. Nothing in Virginia Beach where you live, so that commute must be gnarly. http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_28373689/denver-lands-united-airlines-pilot-training-facility
There's a lot to operating a big airplane.
I was a 747-400 pilot (sim) instructor and FAA check airman for UAL for five years, 1997-2002, before I went back to line flying and then returned to Active Duty. I am currently a 756/767 sim instructor for UAL.
Been through school five times in the airline business. 747, then A320, then 757, came back to the 320 when returning to United, then 757 to come back into our training center.
F-14 training took nine months to a year. Not only was the airplane more complex but there was a much broader set of missions and operating environment.
Amazing career! I toured the Denver UAL flight sim facility over 10 years ago, a very big place. United Airlines is bringing their Houston (smaller) operation to Denver to consolidate. So Denver gets even bigger. Nothing in Virginia Beach where you live, so that commute must be gnarly. http://www.denverpost.com/business/ci_28373689/denver-lands-united-airlines-pilot-training-facility
I suppose it's amazing...one of the amazing things was the ups and downs of going into bankruptcy...my pay, in 2004, was substantially less than I made as a LT in the USN in 1997...and was about 1/3 of what I made in 2001...that's right, 1/3...I had a choice of paying my bills, or my mortgage...but not both...it was not a great time to be an airline pilot.
But, if you look at some of the airplanes that I've flown: F-14, F/A-18, 747-400 among them, I've been very lucky...I've flown about 30 different airplanes over the years...and been able to fly off 9 different carriers (I've been aboard a few more that I didn't fly on/off) as well as go to the airports, like Kai Tak, that I wanted to...
The Denver Training Center was the choice for UAL recently to consolidate training. I'm pleased by that as a Colorado fan. At its peak in 2000, DENTK had 28 full motion simulators and provided training for nearly 12,000 pilots. The combined airline has training needs of a similar magnitude, so consolidating in a place that could handle the load, without extensive new construction, made sense. Simulators and training will begin migrating up this winter.
A view of the "F" Building, completed in 1997, which houses 10 full-motion devices and 4 fixed base simulators.
An old Navy friend and I about to start a training session in the 767-400 simulator. They're big machines...three stories tall, and sit on 36" of reinforced concrete...
But, if you look at some of the airplanes that I've flown: F-14, F/A-18, 747-400 among them, I've been very lucky...I've flown about 30 different airplanes over the years...and been able to fly off 9 different carriers (I've been aboard a few more that I didn't fly on/off) as well as go to the airports, like Kai Tak, that I wanted to...
The Denver Training Center was the choice for UAL recently to consolidate training. I'm pleased by that as a Colorado fan. At its peak in 2000, DENTK had 28 full motion simulators and provided training for nearly 12,000 pilots. The combined airline has training needs of a similar magnitude, so consolidating in a place that could handle the load, without extensive new construction, made sense. Simulators and training will begin migrating up this winter.
A view of the "F" Building, completed in 1997, which houses 10 full-motion devices and 4 fixed base simulators.
An old Navy friend and I about to start a training session in the 767-400 simulator. They're big machines...three stories tall, and sit on 36" of reinforced concrete...
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Yep, you had an awesome careers both commercial and military pilot.
I would love to fly the 777 for a living.... unfortunately I don't.
My other 'dream jobs' would be starting QB for the NE Patriots or president of the #*lls Angels biker gang.
I would love to fly the 777 for a living.... unfortunately I don't.
My other 'dream jobs' would be starting QB for the NE Patriots or president of the #*lls Angels biker gang.
Astro14 and 757guy gave you a pretty comprehensive description of what it was/is like to transition between aircraft in the airlines as your "Permanent Position" changes (B757 Capt to A330 Capt, A320 FO to B757 FO, etc). The training footprint, as someone noted, is like a two month long hostage crisis. Do it in Moscow on the Mississippi (MSP) in January and February and it felt like a Soviet gulag.
There were those of us at NWA (Not Written Anywhere, Not Without Acrimony,etc) who were "Forced Temporary" pilots, who transitioned between different airplanes and seat positions EVERY month OR sometimes between different airplanes and seat positions in the SAME month. It was done in reverse seniority order. Each month, as the airline flexed its flying operations up or down, if you were the most junior pilot qualified in that position, you got tagged for involuntary temporary reassignment. I was double/triple qualed from the Fall of 1990 until our contract changed after the lockout/strike of 1998. It was the worst period of my 25 year airline career and I was burned out. I was constantly taking checkrides, recencies and OE almost monthly, at least it seemed that way. Further, since you were already "qualified" on the aircraft you were in the simulator for, you were expected to perform quickly and precisely, notwitstanding the fact that you had more recently flown up to two different aircraft besides this one.
From month to month, I might have to look two or three different places to find out what aircraft and seat position that I was flying next month. As the next month rolled around, a week prior, I would start getting out my flight manuals for the "new" airplane and start rememorizing aircraft operations limits, schematics of hydraulic, fuel, electrical systems, pressurization, engines, ad infinitum. I would have to completely relearn aircraft approach procedures and instrument landing callouts/procedures for the new jet, even while flying my current seat position during airline trips. It was routine for me to take two sets of flight pubs on an airline trip and study on my layovers. I might land on the last day of the month as an international 747-400 FO and walk out the door a couple of days later as an A-320 Capt starting a domestic trip. In Dec 1993, I walked in the door after flying an Asia trip as a 400 FO and the phone was ringing. I was being "forced temp" to B727 Capt the rest of the month, while already being scheduled for an A-320 Capt Checkride after Christmas. That would have been three different aircraft and seat positions in the same month. I told the Crew Scheduler what they could do with their request since I was supposed to have a few weeks off over the Christmas holidays. Expecting a call from the DTW Chief Pilot at any moment for my unenthusiastic response to Crew Skeds, it never came. Perhaps the Chief Pilot was not such a Scrooge after all.
Exacerbating this dual/triple qual scenario in the airline, I was also flying in the Air National Guard. The Guard airplane made my 4th current airplane at one time. I would simply do what I did in the airline- review ops limits, systems, ejection and boldface emergency procedures before each flight and hope that I could use my superior judgment and not my superior flying skill. I finally used my superior judgment and left the Guard so I could focus on exclusively airline flying.
NWA was the only major US airline-or any airline that I know of- that employed dual/triple qualified pilots. I spoke with ALPA, NWA and finally the FAA about it. They all said the same thing- "we feel your pain, but it is legal." If the flying public had only known...
In retrospect, changing aircraft positions in the airline was actually both challenging and something to look forward to. It might mean being able to now fly international routes on a widebody when you had only flown domestically. It might mean you get to upgrade to Capt from FO. It might mean upgrading from "steam gauges" to the latest "glass cockpit" technology with a whole new language of acronyms like EICAS, ECAM, FADEC, IRS/GPS, MCDU/CDU, MCP,PFD/ND, FMS, etc. It was definitely the "firehose" effect when you went to school-particularly on the "glass" jets. The learning curve was exceedingly steep but our Instructor Pilots (Capt and FO) were generally outstanding (guys like Astro14, 757guy, etc). US airline training programs are outstanding in their scope and methods and produce excellent pilots. A few of us marginal guys did manage to slip by though...maybe that's why I got all those extra checkrides and line checks
There were those of us at NWA (Not Written Anywhere, Not Without Acrimony,etc) who were "Forced Temporary" pilots, who transitioned between different airplanes and seat positions EVERY month OR sometimes between different airplanes and seat positions in the SAME month. It was done in reverse seniority order. Each month, as the airline flexed its flying operations up or down, if you were the most junior pilot qualified in that position, you got tagged for involuntary temporary reassignment. I was double/triple qualed from the Fall of 1990 until our contract changed after the lockout/strike of 1998. It was the worst period of my 25 year airline career and I was burned out. I was constantly taking checkrides, recencies and OE almost monthly, at least it seemed that way. Further, since you were already "qualified" on the aircraft you were in the simulator for, you were expected to perform quickly and precisely, notwitstanding the fact that you had more recently flown up to two different aircraft besides this one.
From month to month, I might have to look two or three different places to find out what aircraft and seat position that I was flying next month. As the next month rolled around, a week prior, I would start getting out my flight manuals for the "new" airplane and start rememorizing aircraft operations limits, schematics of hydraulic, fuel, electrical systems, pressurization, engines, ad infinitum. I would have to completely relearn aircraft approach procedures and instrument landing callouts/procedures for the new jet, even while flying my current seat position during airline trips. It was routine for me to take two sets of flight pubs on an airline trip and study on my layovers. I might land on the last day of the month as an international 747-400 FO and walk out the door a couple of days later as an A-320 Capt starting a domestic trip. In Dec 1993, I walked in the door after flying an Asia trip as a 400 FO and the phone was ringing. I was being "forced temp" to B727 Capt the rest of the month, while already being scheduled for an A-320 Capt Checkride after Christmas. That would have been three different aircraft and seat positions in the same month. I told the Crew Scheduler what they could do with their request since I was supposed to have a few weeks off over the Christmas holidays. Expecting a call from the DTW Chief Pilot at any moment for my unenthusiastic response to Crew Skeds, it never came. Perhaps the Chief Pilot was not such a Scrooge after all.
Exacerbating this dual/triple qual scenario in the airline, I was also flying in the Air National Guard. The Guard airplane made my 4th current airplane at one time. I would simply do what I did in the airline- review ops limits, systems, ejection and boldface emergency procedures before each flight and hope that I could use my superior judgment and not my superior flying skill. I finally used my superior judgment and left the Guard so I could focus on exclusively airline flying.
NWA was the only major US airline-or any airline that I know of- that employed dual/triple qualified pilots. I spoke with ALPA, NWA and finally the FAA about it. They all said the same thing- "we feel your pain, but it is legal." If the flying public had only known...
In retrospect, changing aircraft positions in the airline was actually both challenging and something to look forward to. It might mean being able to now fly international routes on a widebody when you had only flown domestically. It might mean you get to upgrade to Capt from FO. It might mean upgrading from "steam gauges" to the latest "glass cockpit" technology with a whole new language of acronyms like EICAS, ECAM, FADEC, IRS/GPS, MCDU/CDU, MCP,PFD/ND, FMS, etc. It was definitely the "firehose" effect when you went to school-particularly on the "glass" jets. The learning curve was exceedingly steep but our Instructor Pilots (Capt and FO) were generally outstanding (guys like Astro14, 757guy, etc). US airline training programs are outstanding in their scope and methods and produce excellent pilots. A few of us marginal guys did manage to slip by though...maybe that's why I got all those extra checkrides and line checks
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Originally Posted By: Mr Nice
Yep, you had an awesome careers both commercial and military pilot.
I would love to fly the 777 for a living.... unfortunately I don't.
My other 'dream jobs' would be starting QB for the NE Patriots or president of the #*lls Angels biker gang.
I would want to be a rock star .That is it.
Yep, you had an awesome careers both commercial and military pilot.
I would love to fly the 777 for a living.... unfortunately I don't.
My other 'dream jobs' would be starting QB for the NE Patriots or president of the #*lls Angels biker gang.
I would want to be a rock star .That is it.
D4D - I am, frankly, astonished that you were allowed to be current/qualified in all those airplanes!
At UAL, we are having to modify the former UA 757s to be considered one fleet with the former CAL 757s...tiny mods like speed tapes on the EADI, vs. the fast/slow indicator...and a two position (intercom/radio vs. one position radio) transmit switch on the yoke...these tiny differences in 757s were considered sufficient to make them two fleets, and millions are being spent to make them "common"...
To be a 727 CAP and widebody glass FO? Inconceivable in today's climate...
The day you show up for training at UAL, you are considered no longer qualified on your previous airplane. Period. The fleet welcome aboard brief makes you not qualified in your previous platform.
Wow...just...wow...
At UAL, we are having to modify the former UA 757s to be considered one fleet with the former CAL 757s...tiny mods like speed tapes on the EADI, vs. the fast/slow indicator...and a two position (intercom/radio vs. one position radio) transmit switch on the yoke...these tiny differences in 757s were considered sufficient to make them two fleets, and millions are being spent to make them "common"...
To be a 727 CAP and widebody glass FO? Inconceivable in today's climate...
The day you show up for training at UAL, you are considered no longer qualified on your previous airplane. Period. The fleet welcome aboard brief makes you not qualified in your previous platform.
Wow...just...wow...
At NWA, the company philosophy was that if they spent the money to initially train you and qualify you on a new airplane, you were "qualified" for life. If you were not CURRENT (takeoffs/landings or checkride) you were given a very brief training period to get current.
This was the same company that for a time, reportedly took the bathroom stall doors off, to preclude employees from lingering in the john. Our CEO would fight with the paper clip salesman over the cost of office supplies. Every dollar spent had to have a significant return on investment. At Cobra Airlines (strike at anything), virtually every Flt Ops Bulletin to the pilot group was closed with the admonition " you will comply with this guidance. Failure to comply with this guidance may result in termination" or similar language. Overall, a pretty hostile management/pilot relationship. Going for training or a checkride in my first 10 years working there, really was a "bet your job" experience. Literally, "failure was NOT an option". Add in multiple , simultaneous aircraft currencies and the stress was palpable. Probably 5-10% of NWA pilot's faced "forced temp" multiple aircraft currency issues.
When I had to bounce to 727 Capt from 747-400 FO, I would know which seat was mine because there were already pilots sitting in the other seats when I got to the cockpit. I told them " If you can get this thing started, we can go." I would set my radar altimeter warning alert to 20 feet so that I had a ground alert system to know about when to flare the Three-holer. Otherwise, coming from the 747-400 just a few days prior, I was likely to start my flare, based on learned sight picture, about 100 ' AGL. I would remind my FO/SO to make sure that I moved the throttles since I was used to autothrottles on the 757, 320 and 747-400. After babysitting me for a couple of legs on the 727, it was pretty normal , however, I did use more "automation" (Autopilot, FD) on the Trijet , than probably any other 727 pilot in history. That was what I was used to. Now I was coming back to a Jurassic era dinosaur from the Star Wars era glass jets...
I am always grateful that NWA gave me the chance to train on the world's latest aircraft and equipment-it did become a double edge sword however. As an early adopter, I probably had more glass jet experience than most airline pilots when I left in 2009. I started flying glass jets in early 1988 and flew them until Oct 2009. 21 of my 25 years were spent flying different generations of glass (757, 320, 747-400, 330). My NWA Instructor Pilots (Capt and FO), particularly in the glass jet programs, were hand picked, "high speed, low drag " subject matter experts in the latest procedures and technology. They were so good, they even got me through the training/checking programs on time with semi-satisfactory results.
Post merger, I wish I could have stayed to fly the B-777, the A-350 or the B-787, but early retirement seemed much more interesting than flying even one more trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic crossing. "Tokyo, Tokyo, Northwest 11, Position, over..." Sayonara !
This was the same company that for a time, reportedly took the bathroom stall doors off, to preclude employees from lingering in the john. Our CEO would fight with the paper clip salesman over the cost of office supplies. Every dollar spent had to have a significant return on investment. At Cobra Airlines (strike at anything), virtually every Flt Ops Bulletin to the pilot group was closed with the admonition " you will comply with this guidance. Failure to comply with this guidance may result in termination" or similar language. Overall, a pretty hostile management/pilot relationship. Going for training or a checkride in my first 10 years working there, really was a "bet your job" experience. Literally, "failure was NOT an option". Add in multiple , simultaneous aircraft currencies and the stress was palpable. Probably 5-10% of NWA pilot's faced "forced temp" multiple aircraft currency issues.
When I had to bounce to 727 Capt from 747-400 FO, I would know which seat was mine because there were already pilots sitting in the other seats when I got to the cockpit. I told them " If you can get this thing started, we can go." I would set my radar altimeter warning alert to 20 feet so that I had a ground alert system to know about when to flare the Three-holer. Otherwise, coming from the 747-400 just a few days prior, I was likely to start my flare, based on learned sight picture, about 100 ' AGL. I would remind my FO/SO to make sure that I moved the throttles since I was used to autothrottles on the 757, 320 and 747-400. After babysitting me for a couple of legs on the 727, it was pretty normal , however, I did use more "automation" (Autopilot, FD) on the Trijet , than probably any other 727 pilot in history. That was what I was used to. Now I was coming back to a Jurassic era dinosaur from the Star Wars era glass jets...
I am always grateful that NWA gave me the chance to train on the world's latest aircraft and equipment-it did become a double edge sword however. As an early adopter, I probably had more glass jet experience than most airline pilots when I left in 2009. I started flying glass jets in early 1988 and flew them until Oct 2009. 21 of my 25 years were spent flying different generations of glass (757, 320, 747-400, 330). My NWA Instructor Pilots (Capt and FO), particularly in the glass jet programs, were hand picked, "high speed, low drag " subject matter experts in the latest procedures and technology. They were so good, they even got me through the training/checking programs on time with semi-satisfactory results.
Post merger, I wish I could have stayed to fly the B-777, the A-350 or the B-787, but early retirement seemed much more interesting than flying even one more trans-Pacific or trans-Atlantic crossing. "Tokyo, Tokyo, Northwest 11, Position, over..." Sayonara !
Originally Posted By: d4d
.Exacerbating this dual/triple qual scenario in the airline, I was also flying in the Air National Guard. The Guard airplane made my 4th current airplane at one time. .
That explains why airline pilots (like multi-rated Quagmire below) often pause on the intercom for "aaaaaah...." a lot; they were thinking "what airplane am I in now & what's that button do?" :
Originally Posted By: d4d
In retrospect, changing aircraft positions in the airline was actually both challenging and something to look forward to. .
I think most of us view it that way. We never experienced the fatigue. Its impressive you've done that much. I mean, who wants to drive the same aluminum can over the same routes over & over again?
.Exacerbating this dual/triple qual scenario in the airline, I was also flying in the Air National Guard. The Guard airplane made my 4th current airplane at one time. .
That explains why airline pilots (like multi-rated Quagmire below) often pause on the intercom for "aaaaaah...." a lot; they were thinking "what airplane am I in now & what's that button do?" :
Originally Posted By: d4d
In retrospect, changing aircraft positions in the airline was actually both challenging and something to look forward to. .
I think most of us view it that way. We never experienced the fatigue. Its impressive you've done that much. I mean, who wants to drive the same aluminum can over the same routes over & over again?
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