Underground fire at a St. Louis landfill....
http://www.citylab.com/politics/2015/10/...te-site/409846/
http://www.citylab.com/politics/2015/10/...te-site/409846/
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What could go wrong here?
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How is oxygen getting down there? Cut off the oxygen and the fire goes out.
Chris142: they tried this with the Centralia underground coal fire; didn't work
Originally Posted By: car51
Chris142: they tried this with the Centralia underground coal fire; didn't work
lol..yea its been burning 53 years.
Chris142: they tried this with the Centralia underground coal fire; didn't work
lol..yea its been burning 53 years.
Originally Posted By: car51
Chris142: they tried this with the Centralia underground coal fire; didn't work
Why not? must be getting oxygen somehow
Chris142: they tried this with the Centralia underground coal fire; didn't work
Why not? must be getting oxygen somehow
I spent years working in both the nuclear energy and waste combustion fields. Wouldn't have figured on this type of event.
It doesn't much oxygen at all (or none) to ignite a fire from composted organic materials. At the waste-to-energy plants they have "pits" for storage during the week that are up to 100 ft deep in municipal solid waste. If you leave that stuff in there too long it starts to decompose and generate heat. Paper and organic products will literally become ignitable dust in only weeks/months. It takes very little to no oxygen to get it smoldering. Eventually, the smoldering mass makes its way to the surface where the vapors will ignite into a flame. The key to the "pit" is turning it over frequently. Can't do that in a covered landfill built many years ago.
The modern landfills now collect the leachate (water) and the generated gases for disposal/use elsewhere. On landfills more than 20-30 yrs old I would guess there's no controls, just a pile of decaying MSW. There are lots of those old pits all over the country, often visible from the interstate highways - I95 for one. (ie a small green mountain that looks out of place).
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter. Just keep the smoldering underground. That's one way to get rid of or shrink a landfill. To those people that said: “It’s one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. It’s literally an incinerator of smoldering garbage”...they should go to their nearest trash plant when they are digging out the pit on a weekend. That's the worst smell you'll probably ever smell. Odor complaints around landfills and MSW combustion plants are common enough. It's not like you can put a bubble over the things and never have a problem. Last I checked about 10 years ago, the nation still landfills about 85% of its solid waste. It will continue to be a problem for decades to come.
It doesn't much oxygen at all (or none) to ignite a fire from composted organic materials. At the waste-to-energy plants they have "pits" for storage during the week that are up to 100 ft deep in municipal solid waste. If you leave that stuff in there too long it starts to decompose and generate heat. Paper and organic products will literally become ignitable dust in only weeks/months. It takes very little to no oxygen to get it smoldering. Eventually, the smoldering mass makes its way to the surface where the vapors will ignite into a flame. The key to the "pit" is turning it over frequently. Can't do that in a covered landfill built many years ago.
The modern landfills now collect the leachate (water) and the generated gases for disposal/use elsewhere. On landfills more than 20-30 yrs old I would guess there's no controls, just a pile of decaying MSW. There are lots of those old pits all over the country, often visible from the interstate highways - I95 for one. (ie a small green mountain that looks out of place).
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter. Just keep the smoldering underground. That's one way to get rid of or shrink a landfill. To those people that said: “It’s one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. It’s literally an incinerator of smoldering garbage”...they should go to their nearest trash plant when they are digging out the pit on a weekend. That's the worst smell you'll probably ever smell. Odor complaints around landfills and MSW combustion plants are common enough. It's not like you can put a bubble over the things and never have a problem. Last I checked about 10 years ago, the nation still landfills about 85% of its solid waste. It will continue to be a problem for decades to come.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter.
Couple of points on the above...
Sydney has had some crazy stuff happen with old "factories" that processed nuclear materials being razed, and the feds knowing all about the history and legacy, state being kept in the dark, and opening areas up for housing/parks/whatever.
As top capping, back in 2012, I had a task to rehab an open cut coal mine, and turn it into a power station ash storage area.
A half metre of compacted fly ash is as impervious as a half metre of clay, and could be used to great effect for lining and capping landfills...it's used to smother mine fires from time to time.
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter.
Couple of points on the above...
Sydney has had some crazy stuff happen with old "factories" that processed nuclear materials being razed, and the feds knowing all about the history and legacy, state being kept in the dark, and opening areas up for housing/parks/whatever.
As top capping, back in 2012, I had a task to rehab an open cut coal mine, and turn it into a power station ash storage area.
A half metre of compacted fly ash is as impervious as a half metre of clay, and could be used to great effect for lining and capping landfills...it's used to smother mine fires from time to time.
Originally Posted By: 69GTX
I spent years working in both the nuclear energy and waste combustion fields. Wouldn't have figured on this type of event.
It doesn't much oxygen at all (or none) to ignite a fire from composted organic materials. At the waste-to-energy plants they have "pits" for storage during the week that are up to 100 ft deep in municipal solid waste. If you leave that stuff in there too long it starts to decompose and generate heat. Paper and organic products will literally become ignitable dust in only weeks/months. It takes very little to no oxygen to get it smoldering. Eventually, the smoldering mass makes its way to the surface where the vapors will ignite into a flame. The key to the "pit" is turning it over frequently. Can't do that in a covered landfill built many years ago.
The modern landfills now collect the leachate (water) and the generated gases for disposal/use elsewhere. On landfills more than 20-30 yrs old I would guess there's no controls, just a pile of decaying MSW. There are lots of those old pits all over the country, often visible from the interstate highways - I95 for one. (ie a small green mountain that looks out of place).
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter. Just keep the smoldering underground. That's one way to get rid of or shrink a landfill. To those people that said: “It’s one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. It’s literally an incinerator of smoldering garbage”...they should go to their nearest trash plant when they are digging out the pit on a weekend. That's the worst smell you'll probably ever smell. Odor complaints around landfills and MSW combustion plants are common enough. It's not like you can put a bubble over the things and never have a problem. Last I checked about 10 years ago, the nation still landfills about 85% of its solid waste. It will continue to be a problem for decades to come.
Interesting background. This is a issue, and what happens when that fire hits that glow in the dark dump???? Its not that far from the St. Louis airport.
I spent years working in both the nuclear energy and waste combustion fields. Wouldn't have figured on this type of event.
It doesn't much oxygen at all (or none) to ignite a fire from composted organic materials. At the waste-to-energy plants they have "pits" for storage during the week that are up to 100 ft deep in municipal solid waste. If you leave that stuff in there too long it starts to decompose and generate heat. Paper and organic products will literally become ignitable dust in only weeks/months. It takes very little to no oxygen to get it smoldering. Eventually, the smoldering mass makes its way to the surface where the vapors will ignite into a flame. The key to the "pit" is turning it over frequently. Can't do that in a covered landfill built many years ago.
The modern landfills now collect the leachate (water) and the generated gases for disposal/use elsewhere. On landfills more than 20-30 yrs old I would guess there's no controls, just a pile of decaying MSW. There are lots of those old pits all over the country, often visible from the interstate highways - I95 for one. (ie a small green mountain that looks out of place).
I have to wonder what kind of radioactive materials that were buried long ago that are both burnable and long-lived isotopes. That usually means things like Uranium, Cobalt, etc. I would think the ground covering of the landfill (cap) could act as a pretty good filter. Just keep the smoldering underground. That's one way to get rid of or shrink a landfill. To those people that said: “It’s one of the worst experiences I’ve ever had. It’s literally an incinerator of smoldering garbage”...they should go to their nearest trash plant when they are digging out the pit on a weekend. That's the worst smell you'll probably ever smell. Odor complaints around landfills and MSW combustion plants are common enough. It's not like you can put a bubble over the things and never have a problem. Last I checked about 10 years ago, the nation still landfills about 85% of its solid waste. It will continue to be a problem for decades to come.
Interesting background. This is a issue, and what happens when that fire hits that glow in the dark dump???? Its not that far from the St. Louis airport.
This how the zombie apocalypse starts...
I gather from this article that the EPA is "in charge". Rest easy.
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