Heads are Rolling at VW

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Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
2.8million was the number in germany alone, I beieve.... with 11 million in all of europe.

and now audi aswell, with 2.1 million cars so far.

Just waiting for confirmation Skoda and Seat are also implicated
And here I thought Audi were the diesel "experts".


Clearly they are not.

What made me suspicious with VW a while back is why Honda who better engine experts then could not make a salable diesel in the US. Subaru also gave up on importing their Euro diesel they desperately needed a few years back when MPG was ho hum before CVT/engine refinements for decent MPG.

Subaru could not get their engine to work with US emmisions and admitted to it.
 
Originally Posted By: madRiver

Subaru could not get their engine to work with US emmisions and admitted to it.


VW did figure out what I view as an elegant solution to get their engine to work with US emissions. Blatantly illegal, but elegant.
 
> VW did figure out what I view as an elegant solution to get their engine to work with US emissions. Blatantly illegal, but elegant.

You're giving VW too much credit. Their supplier (Bosch) provided them the programming, but told them not to use it in a production car.
 
http://www.theguardian.com/business/live...4b0f0cb93ae0218

It's hard to see a reason not to hammer them, and pretty hard at that.

Max penalties are for behavior that is as bad as it gets. I don't think this is as bad as it gets, but, when you break the trust in an honor system, the people in charge usually see that as pretty bad. They don't have enough of these cars here to plausibly say that they have indirectly killed people, but VW probably would have been OK with that if they were - Europe seems to be good evidence of that.

So, I see 2 or 3 billion civil from the EPA, maybe more. The DOJ needs to put some people in handcuffs instead of just demanding more money, and then whatever FTC can hammer them with - FTC should max them. I don't see how you can commit a worse example of false and deceptive advertising. The whole book should be thrown at them here, and then they should be beaten with it when they are down. IRS should get the tax credit money back, but that's not a big amount.

And then there will be all the civil lawsuits. VW could wind up kaput.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
And then there will be all the civil lawsuits. VW could wind up kaput.


Too big to fail.
 
Funny how some folks are talking about hammering VW. Uncle Sam never seemed particularly intent on hammering Lockheed when they were caught with their pants round their ankles having bribed virtually anyone of importance to sell their jet propelled coffins. A case of one rule for us and another for Johnny Foreigner???
 
I remember talking to guy that worked for a large dealership group and he said they liked to wholesale off most of the VWs they took in on trade because of how troublesome they are. Esp the electrics. They would gather all the old beat up cars then you would have newer vw's in the group. These cars would be auctioned off to other dealers, read small used car lots. You could only bid on them if you had a dealers license.

Just checked their inventory. Out of the 515 used cars they have in stock, 5 of them are vw's.

http://www.sunnysideauto.com/searchused.aspx
 
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Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
A case of one rule for us and another for Johnny Foreigner???


You should have seen how they went after Toyota.
 
Did someone say BP? One of the best pay days ever for the good old US of A. What? Are you suggesting our Louisiana judges are bent? I'll see you in court!
 
Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: Win
And then there will be all the civil lawsuits. VW could wind up kaput.


Too big to fail.


Not in this country. What Europe does with them is their business.
 
I agree, but you did say "VW could wind up kaput", not "VW America could wind up kaput".
 
Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
Are you suggesting our Louisiana judges are bent?


The justice system here is beyond reproach, especially in the South.
 
Originally Posted By: Benito
I agree, but you did say "VW could wind up kaput", not "VW America could wind up kaput".


Fair enough, I meant VW here, once our system has had its way with VW.

The silence from their competitors is deafening and interesting.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Benito
I agree, but you did say "VW could wind up kaput", not "VW America could wind up kaput".


Fair enough, I meant VW here, once our system has had its way with VW.

The silence from their competitors is deafening and interesting.


Since VW do manufacturer in the US, there may be some who will swim against the tide and argue that their US workers had nothing to do with the diesel rigging.

I'm sure all competitors are frantically reviewing everything to do with emissions in every country around the world.
 
Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: Win
Originally Posted By: Benito
I agree, but you did say "VW could wind up kaput", not "VW America could wind up kaput".


Fair enough, I meant VW here, once our system has had its way with VW.

The silence from their competitors is deafening and interesting.


Since VW do manufacturer in the US, there may be some who will swim against the tide and argue that their US workers had nothing to do with the diesel rigging.

I'm sure all competitors are frantically reviewing everything to do with emissions in every country around the world.


If Mr. Horn's congressional testimony is reported semi accurately, that is the position of VW America: the Germans did it. How that will play out with the .gov agencies is anybody's guess, I guess.

Also interesting, apparently the company line is a couple of rogue engineers did it, he (Mr. Horn) shares the scepticism of his congressional inquisitors about this, and he personally feels he has been deceived. I find that company line hard to believe as well. Actually, I just don't believe it.

Props to him for facing the music, and not taking the 5th like our highly paid public servants seem to want to do - I'm sure it was not a fun day for him.
 
Originally Posted By: Win
Also interesting, apparently the company line is a couple of rogue engineers did it, he (Mr. Horn) shares the scepticism of his congressional inquisitors about this, and he personally feels he has been deceived. I find that company line hard to believe as well. Actually, I just don't believe it.


It's certainly possible to hide some un-documented software in the diesel computers. Code from a small handfull of software writers can be secret. Other emissions control engineers in the company should have figured out the engines were behaving differently between test mode and non test mode though. Red flags and clues must have been everywhere.
Therefore, I view this as a conspiracy from a small group of software people, perpetuated by the rest of the engineering organization in a Shultz moment:
 
A reason not to hammer them ?

Set up an out of control bureaucracy that has an anti business agenda and let them make rules that make no sense .. that seems reason enough .
 
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