Is there any need for recycled oil?

Status
Not open for further replies.
My friend that works at a rental outfit says they haven't had any issues ever using safety clean "eco power" 5w30. I'd rather see used oil turned into new motor oil than burned; that's my uneducated mechanics opinion
 
The processing steps needed to render used motor oil suitable for hydrotreating are somewhat different than with crude oil due to all the additives that make a good lubricant from a base oil. So it takes specialized facilities, and I've never seen the recycled oil be cost advantaged to other motor oils, in spite of all the energy savings claims. I suspect the exaggerated claims are based on the rest of a barrel of crude oil having no use.

Walmart carried America's Choice in quarts on the shelf at one point, but at a significant price premium to other conventional oils. It didn't keep shelf space very long.

Safety Kleen has mentioned they burn some of the streams products for heat in their used oil re-refinery, and some of the streams are used for blending heavy fuel oil. If you think the current process means none of it is burned, you're mistaken.
 
Re-refine takes energy, just like refining crude oil, and that means burning something.

Not having re-refined oil or even 50% re-refined oil on the shelf doesn't means they aren't re-refined at the moment, it only means people are not willing to pay a premium for it or it doesn't save any money over using new stock from crude.

Most importantly, it isn't cheaper than burning used oil as bunker fuel in the quantity. If dumping all the used oil into bunker fuel burner or marine engine means their prices would collapse, then you'd bet they would rather re-refine all the used oil out there just to get rid of the glut, even if it means they are losing money at the end of the process.
 
Although I haven't worked at a lube oil re-refinery, I did work at a refinery with a mothballed re-refining unit as well as a (still running) process oils unit separate from the rest of the refinery. The re-refining unit didn't include hydrotreating, and the story was it was extremely difficult to get sufficient used motor oil that hadn't been contaminated by commingling with other fluids to run in the 1980's. There have been many failed attempts at commercial scale lube oil re-refining.

This article is from Feb. 2014, before the significant drop in crude oil prices, and before the Chevron Pascagoula new base oil plant commenced production.

http://www.crystal-clean.com/about/ILMA_Compoundings_Voices_and_Views_February_2014.pdf

The VII's in motor oils provide a very different challenge than refining lube stocks from crude oil, or synthesizing base stocks. Note that batches of used motor oil that fail Safety Kleen's lab screening process for suitability for their re-refining capability still need to be dealt with.

As far as studies on pollutants from bunker fuel blended with used motor oil, there's this study from 2004 in California.

http://oehha.ca.gov/risk/pdf/UsedOilInBunkerFuel.pdf

I'll confess I haven't read this thoroughly due to all the weasel words about not having enough data and modeling capability etc. (which helps bolster increased funding requests and removes responsibility if the authors are later proved wrong) but the executive summary is reasonably brief.
 
Originally Posted By: paulri
Part of the issue for me is what that "look at what we make out of a barrel of crude oil" pic really means (see the second to the last post on page 1 of this thread).

If in fact the entire contents of a 40+gallon barrel of crude is needed to make 2.5 quarts of motor oil, then it seems hard to say that this is the most efficient use of resources, when we can make a lot of gasoline (a lot more than 2 quarts) with the same barrel. Which in turn would mean that it is best to recycle used oil, as the specs on that are about 1 gallon of used oil, to make 2.5 quarts of "new" motor oil.

But if they make all that gas, AND the 2.5 quarts of motor oil, *from the same barrel,* then it seems like we might as well refine a bit of it to make motor oil. We really aren't taking away the ability to do lots of things with the crude oil, by refining a small part of each barrel into motor oil.
Are you saying we'll use less crude by refining used oil vs simply burning the used oil? I'm not seeing it. The ship/etc is going to burn something. AFAIK BTU=BTU. In the long run you're using the same amount of crude.
 
We have re-refiners out here who are always looking for good clean'ish collected used oil. They have contracts with the military to supply specialty lubes that are made from re-refined motor oil. It's all good.

Why would anyone question collecting used oil and re-refining it? It seems the logical thing to do as long as there is a market for the end product (?) - and there is
smile.gif
 
Originally Posted By: paulri
Part of the issue for me is what that "look at what we make out of a barrel of crude oil" pic really means (see the second to the last post on page 1 of this thread).

If in fact the entire contents of a 40+gallon barrel of crude is needed to make 2.5 quarts of motor oil, then it seems hard to say that this is the most efficient use of resources, when we can make a lot of gasoline (a lot more than 2 quarts) with the same barrel. Which in turn would mean that it is best to recycle used oil, as the specs on that are about 1 gallon of used oil, to make 2.5 quarts of "new" motor oil.

But if they make all that gas, AND the 2.5 quarts of motor oil, *from the same barrel,* then it seems like we might as well refine a bit of it to make motor oil. We really aren't taking away the ability to do lots of things with the crude oil, by refining a small part of each barrel into motor oil.


if it took an entire barrel of oil to make 2.5 quarts of oil, what would be the price of the quart? It would be astromical. They get 2.5 quarts of oil and lots of other products from each barrel.
 
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
We have re-refiners out here who are always looking for good clean'ish collected used oil. They have contracts with the military to supply specialty lubes that are made from re-refined motor oil. It's all good.

Why would anyone question collecting used oil and re-refining it? It seems the logical thing to do as long as there is a market for the end product (?) - and there is
smile.gif

Is that the stuff the taxpayers buy for 10X+ the price so a politician can get campaign money from some special interest?
 
Originally Posted By: philipp10
Originally Posted By: paulri
Part of the issue for me is what that "look at what we make out of a barrel of crude oil" pic really means (see the second to the last post on page 1 of this thread).

If in fact the entire contents of a 40+gallon barrel of crude is needed to make 2.5 quarts of motor oil, then it seems hard to say that this is the most efficient use of resources, when we can make a lot of gasoline (a lot more than 2 quarts) with the same barrel. Which in turn would mean that it is best to recycle used oil, as the specs on that are about 1 gallon of used oil, to make 2.5 quarts of "new" motor oil.

But if they make all that gas, AND the 2.5 quarts of motor oil, *from the same barrel,* then it seems like we might as well refine a bit of it to make motor oil. We really aren't taking away the ability to do lots of things with the crude oil, by refining a small part of each barrel into motor oil.


if it took an entire barrel of oil to make 2.5 quarts of oil, what would be the price of the quart? It would be astromical. They get 2.5 quarts of oil and lots of other products from each barrel.


The correct way to price that 2.5 qt / barrel is: how much is the next most profitable item you can hydro crack that 2.5 qt of lube base oil into after the processing cost overhead.

If it cost 20c to crack 1 gallon of base oil into gasoline and gasoline is selling for $2 / gallon at the refinery terminal, then lube base oil has to sell for around $1.80 / gallon to justify the price.

Then you work your way backward to get the rerefined base oil price (say $1.70 if you are blending it into lube oil without telling your customer, or $2 if you are selling to gov to meet their rerefined oil mandate), so if $1.80 for finished based oil and $1.2 to rerefine, then the gallon of used oil must be below 60c after transport, and likely less if you want to make a profit to stay in business.

All that math would collapsed into negative region if the crude oil price tank, and you end up having to charge people to haul away the used oil to justify rerefine, or even pay people to take away the used oil and use it as bunker fuel.
 
Originally Posted By: hatt
Originally Posted By: BrocLuno
We have re-refiners out here who are always looking for good clean'ish collected used oil. They have contracts with the military to supply specialty lubes that are made from re-refined motor oil. It's all good.

Why would anyone question collecting used oil and re-refining it? It seems the logical thing to do as long as there is a market for the end product (?) - and there is
smile.gif

Is that the stuff the taxpayers buy for 10X+ the price so a politician can get campaign money from some special interest?


No these are relatively modest volume "boutique" oils for special applications. Helicopter lubes, rotary engine oils, and others that have mandated specs that are easier to make starting with re-refined oil. I used to haul it to Castle Air Force Base in tanker loads. It was good product, just not something the big refineries wanted to tool up for ...

I also hauled re-refined base stocks to EF Houghton to be used in machining oil production.
 
Last edited:
Add a tackifier to it and you have bar oil. burn it to kiln dry fire wood. There was guy down in Texas cracking it into diesel. It is legal to heat with it. I worked with a guy who was truck oiler. At least half of what he drained was poured into fuel tanks he said. You could probably use waste oil burner pre heater parts to to rig it for a diesel engine. I'm not a rabid tree hugger. Mostly my issue is with the amount of wasted consumer goods that are tossed away. Left on the curbside because it no longer suited a need. In my entire house holding, MDW rarely bought new furniture. Most was 2nd hand stuff made in Grand Rapids MI or Hickory NC Good solid stuff. We once bought an entire bedroom set for 35$ Both dressers are still being used. I haven't bought a new mower in over 25 yrs.. I usually have a parts car to keep my daily driver going. My old farmhouse gets renovated with used wood. I often re-use the nails I have pulled to re-attach what ever I have been renovating.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top