severe service
- Thread starter wjli
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I don't get that consensus, there isn't much torque against anything that's lubricated at idle, I think it stems from more cold weather idling (fuel dilution) and/or a [censored] cooling system, I've let both of my Toyotas idle for probably days and days cumulatively and have never noticed any ill effects, but they do seem to have very efficient radiators/engine cooling.
JHZR2
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It can cause fuel and moisture being dumped into the oil. But for your specific use and application, you would have to do UOA to verify. Police cars and others don't necessarily have issues, but they are often fully at temperature which helps.
Originally Posted By: wjli
How does lots of idling time put stress on oil ? It seems like prolonged idling pushes some cars into the severe service category and the need to change oil sooner. Thanks for the input.
Well for one thing, when an engine is idling you're racking up zero miles so if you're basing an OCI on mileage the engine's actual running time is not being fully taken into account.
On the other hand mostly highway mileage is minimizing actual engine running time.
How does lots of idling time put stress on oil ? It seems like prolonged idling pushes some cars into the severe service category and the need to change oil sooner. Thanks for the input.
Well for one thing, when an engine is idling you're racking up zero miles so if you're basing an OCI on mileage the engine's actual running time is not being fully taken into account.
On the other hand mostly highway mileage is minimizing actual engine running time.
At idle your engine is at less than operating temps. So is our oil and coolant. Everything works better when it's working at some load and at full operational temperatures. Temperatures are more even throughout the engine and parts have expanded to their design dimensions.
But, you don't have to worry too much because your engine with modern fuel control is very efficient and will, with proper maintenance probably outlast your interest and the rest of the vehicle. Just be a bit more careful with idling in very cold weather. If that's your situation consider stepping up the maintenance schedule a bit.
Some fleet operators in very cold weather change oil based on gallons of fuel used. The appears to help.
But, you don't have to worry too much because your engine with modern fuel control is very efficient and will, with proper maintenance probably outlast your interest and the rest of the vehicle. Just be a bit more careful with idling in very cold weather. If that's your situation consider stepping up the maintenance schedule a bit.
Some fleet operators in very cold weather change oil based on gallons of fuel used. The appears to help.
Unless you are idling for hours at a time, it is a non-factor.
Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: wjli
How does lots of idling time put stress on oil ? It seems like prolonged idling pushes some cars into the severe service category and the need to change oil sooner. Thanks for the input.
Well for one thing, when an engine is idling you're racking up zero miles so if you're basing an OCI on mileage the engine's actual running time is not being fully taken into account.
On the other hand mostly highway mileage is minimizing actual engine running time.
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
Originally Posted By: wjli
How does lots of idling time put stress on oil ? It seems like prolonged idling pushes some cars into the severe service category and the need to change oil sooner. Thanks for the input.
Well for one thing, when an engine is idling you're racking up zero miles so if you're basing an OCI on mileage the engine's actual running time is not being fully taken into account.
On the other hand mostly highway mileage is minimizing actual engine running time.
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
If you're the car owner, it's agreed that that is a good more accurate idea for a single variable tracker. But people aren't going to track their fuel usage or MPG to back track their fuel usage.
They're going to want to use what's already built in to do the tracking for them-which is the odometer.
So now you switch roles and pretendyou're the car maker; and you're going to build a new system to provide oil info to the user; you're not going to give them the fuel consumption meter, you're going to take the thought all the way past single variable and use multiple variables, so you now got yourself the Oil Life Monitor with an algorithm (which bitogers end up not trusting).
They're going to want to use what's already built in to do the tracking for them-which is the odometer.
So now you switch roles and pretendyou're the car maker; and you're going to build a new system to provide oil info to the user; you're not going to give them the fuel consumption meter, you're going to take the thought all the way past single variable and use multiple variables, so you now got yourself the Oil Life Monitor with an algorithm (which bitogers end up not trusting).
Here in Sask we experience winter temps that are comparable to Alaska. Everyone idles their vehicles to warm them up in winter. I let them idle for hours during the winter. In fact there are days where I lock up my vehicle still running and work my usual workday.
I've never seen Sask vehicle die early because of extended idle times. And my vehicles engines last longer that the vehicle it's planted in.
So from what I've seen in my personal climate the only penalty one pays for extended idle times is fuel consumption and possibly shorter oil change intervals.
They don't expire any sooner vs engines that aren't idled for long periods and if anything driving a warm engine on a -35c day is easier on it than running cold.
I've never seen Sask vehicle die early because of extended idle times. And my vehicles engines last longer that the vehicle it's planted in.
So from what I've seen in my personal climate the only penalty one pays for extended idle times is fuel consumption and possibly shorter oil change intervals.
They don't expire any sooner vs engines that aren't idled for long periods and if anything driving a warm engine on a -35c day is easier on it than running cold.
I idle mine until there's enough heat to clear the windscreen from ice and condensation, which could be 30 minutes. If it's cold enough the needle for the coolant hasn't even moved off it's stop by then.
I just go in ag&ain after starting and get another coffee...
I just go in ag&ain after starting and get another coffee...
Originally Posted By: shiny
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
That's OK, you can also base an OCI on hours [actual time the engine is running] too.
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
That's OK, you can also base an OCI on hours [actual time the engine is running] too.
I would expect the OLM to take hours and gallons into account... and regens if it's a diesel, especially the failed attempts
For Powerstroke Diesel's, Ford advises that 1 hour of idle time equals 25 miles of driving.
An excellent explanation here:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/DeiselTips/DLSIDLETIMESS.pdf
An excellent explanation here:
https://www.fleet.ford.com/truckbbas/non-html/DeiselTips/DLSIDLETIMESS.pdf
Originally Posted By: shiny
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
My car certainly agrees with that methodology. It uses amount of fuel consumed to trigger oil change reminder.
Which is why it might make more sense to base the OCI on gallons of gas used instead of miles racked up. What do people here think of that?
My car certainly agrees with that methodology. It uses amount of fuel consumed to trigger oil change reminder.
The probelm isn't much of lower op temp, but the combination of that with the enrichment of mixture at idle.
That make pretty dirty blowby and later dirty EGR. Giving higher levels of contaminants on the lube sys.
That make pretty dirty blowby and later dirty EGR. Giving higher levels of contaminants on the lube sys.
If you let a fuel injected vehicle idle for periods of time, you'll have less fuel in the gas then a carbed motor will. So if you drive 100 miles say on the highway after a long idle period, any fuel should have burned off. Letting a motor idle seems to put less stress on the motor parts, then when the car is in gear trying to move a vehicle. The only mention I've seen in UOA'S is high fuel readings, never oil was ruined by excessive idleing.,,
Over the last couple of atypically cold winters, our daily drivers saw a lot of warm-up idling in the drive.
You'll do that on a The one with an IOLM, the '12 Accord, could account for this.
It still showed 15% MM after 7K+.
This is in contrast with the 9K+ you'll see under ideal conditions.
So, I conclude that idling and cold weather starts may reduce oil life, but not to something silly like 3K.
Since I change our vehicles without IOLMs at 5K-7K, with the longer drains on vehicles that see a lot of steady speed driving, I'd say that my engines are okay.
Your engine would be as well.
As an old member from CA whom I haven't seen here recently used to post, the car serves you.
You'll do that on a The one with an IOLM, the '12 Accord, could account for this.
It still showed 15% MM after 7K+.
This is in contrast with the 9K+ you'll see under ideal conditions.
So, I conclude that idling and cold weather starts may reduce oil life, but not to something silly like 3K.
Since I change our vehicles without IOLMs at 5K-7K, with the longer drains on vehicles that see a lot of steady speed driving, I'd say that my engines are okay.
Your engine would be as well.
As an old member from CA whom I haven't seen here recently used to post, the car serves you.
You can't possibly idle enough to make a difference.
I idle. Lots. Lowest (hot)oil pressures ever witnessed were after a long idle. So I don't buy into low temp @ idle stuff. Same people that claim outside temps don't matter with a liquid-cooled engine will pull this card, and what can I say...According to UOA, my DI Lexus has 0 fuel, and LOADS of idle. It was idles for 10-15 minutes before the sample was taken.
Your engine is running and rubbing the parts together, so duh there is wear, how much wear though...since a lot of the million mile diesels never shut down for the night in the winter, I'm not worried about some 300hours of idle time I may accumulate in the next 50 years...
I warm up my vehicles because some EP additives are activated by heat. The so called wear at idle, pff, not as bad as my redline adventures, right?
I idle. Lots. Lowest (hot)oil pressures ever witnessed were after a long idle. So I don't buy into low temp @ idle stuff. Same people that claim outside temps don't matter with a liquid-cooled engine will pull this card, and what can I say...According to UOA, my DI Lexus has 0 fuel, and LOADS of idle. It was idles for 10-15 minutes before the sample was taken.
Your engine is running and rubbing the parts together, so duh there is wear, how much wear though...since a lot of the million mile diesels never shut down for the night in the winter, I'm not worried about some 300hours of idle time I may accumulate in the next 50 years...
I warm up my vehicles because some EP additives are activated by heat. The so called wear at idle, pff, not as bad as my redline adventures, right?
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Over the last couple of atypically cold winters, our daily drivers saw a lot of warm-up idling in the drive.
You'll do that on a The one with an IOLM, the '12 Accord, could account for this.
It still showed 15% MM after 7K+.
This is in contrast with the 9K+ you'll see under ideal conditions.
So, I conclude that idling and cold weather starts may reduce oil life, but not to something silly like 3K.
Since I change our vehicles without IOLMs at 5K-7K, with the longer drains on vehicles that see a lot of steady speed driving, I'd say that my engines are okay.
Your engine would be as well.
As an old member from CA whom I haven't seen here recently used to post, the car serves you.
I agree. Reading some of the comments on here, seems like a lot of people are not opposed to extended OCIs, but only under the most ideal conditions. Once you deviate any way from those ideal conditions stick to 5k because oil is cheap is the advice I am hearing a lot.
For people who never change the oil, the engine gives out after going ~50k on the factory fill. Makes the debate about 3k or 5k extra on your oil seem somewhat silly.
Over the last couple of atypically cold winters, our daily drivers saw a lot of warm-up idling in the drive.
You'll do that on a The one with an IOLM, the '12 Accord, could account for this.
It still showed 15% MM after 7K+.
This is in contrast with the 9K+ you'll see under ideal conditions.
So, I conclude that idling and cold weather starts may reduce oil life, but not to something silly like 3K.
Since I change our vehicles without IOLMs at 5K-7K, with the longer drains on vehicles that see a lot of steady speed driving, I'd say that my engines are okay.
Your engine would be as well.
As an old member from CA whom I haven't seen here recently used to post, the car serves you.
I agree. Reading some of the comments on here, seems like a lot of people are not opposed to extended OCIs, but only under the most ideal conditions. Once you deviate any way from those ideal conditions stick to 5k because oil is cheap is the advice I am hearing a lot.
For people who never change the oil, the engine gives out after going ~50k on the factory fill. Makes the debate about 3k or 5k extra on your oil seem somewhat silly.
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