Originally Posted By: alarmguy
Originally Posted By: BusyLittleShop
Originally Posted By: Atesz792
Sorry man, but all one can do about this post is laugh... absolutely no facts straight in there.
No problem... 15 cSt is 15 cSt but what we enjoy about the uniformity synthetics over the
varying mineral is most clear when you expose the same grade to different temps...
The chart above does not reflect any reality. One just has to go over to the VOAs and UOAs in this forum to show it isnt true. I do agree, not based on anything, as it doesnt interest me enough, that a syn MAY flow a little better in extreme cold. Then again some syn is a little light then a conventional, but that example in the photo, sorry dont agree.
Most people do not ride below 50 degrees so not important. High temp vis shows the same syn vs conv.
Example, there is a VOA on HD360 conventional oil and one on Mobile 1 synthetic motorcycle oil. They both have exactly the same viscosity hot and cold. There are countless similar results if one cares to look.
Exactly.
What does cold flow matter when the vehicle isn't operated in conditions that will take advantage of the better flow characteristics.
And how does pouring oil from a bottle correlate to an engine. Oil in a bike engine is pumped. Gravity has no effect except when draining into the sump however if the oil is being pumped the engine is running and the oil is getting heated up by engine.
Regardless it's irrelevant in a real sense. Sure on paper there are advantages using a thinner oil however in reality the durability risks far outweigh the possible improvements.
For example. Larry suggests using m1 0w-30 in a shared sump motorcycle.
He implies he spends time or works in a bike shop. So he can source parts cheaper than most of us as well as have a skilled mech fix any worn or broken parts. And considering he implies he's after max hp a 30 grade will free up a couple of hp in a small engine like his. Which is great if racing and each hp counts,and again if racing durability isn't a huge deal. The components need to last a race. Not 100000 miles.
So yes Larry and his advice is typical for a race bike which has a shop behind it.
Us here in the real world want our bikes to last as long as possible with minimal service thus saving us money. So because the application and situation is remarkably not even close to similar his recommendations are absolute and utter nonsense.
Even if what he says is true and he gets 6hp by using thinner oil is that 6 hp worth the wear that is inevitable. For a racer it's worth it. For a pleasure rider it's not.
We are concerned with durability. Not max hp. And especially not at the expense of shorter component life.
And moly will glaze the clutch over time. That's what it does. Reduces friction. Considering a clutch only works with friction it's foolish to use an oil with high moly levels.
If Larry would use his head for even a split second he would realize his recommendations are not going to in any way improve component life and in a real sense shorten engine,clutch and transmission life.
A 0w-30 is an automotive oil. It in no way is formulated for use with a wet clutch or in a transmission. It's formulated for an engine.
Knowing that I don't know how in good conscience Larry recommend this grade for every motorcycle thread that comes up. It's almost as if he thinks all bike engines are the same and thus can use the same oil he does.
Big twins are built loose because the large Pistons expand and contract to a far greater degree than his itty bitty Pistons.
And there isn't an engine block per say like an inline. And I'm just scratching the surface. Larry obviously is ignorant to anything other than the bike he posts pics and magazine articles of.
So Larry. Because engines in bikes are vastly different and have different needs it's not only irresponsible but stupid to recommend an oil as a one size fits all.
Viscosity is very important in a cold v-twin. And a 0w is too thin at start up. The piston is loose in the bore and will consume oil until the piston tightens up.
Maybe in yhe Honda you post articles about that's not an issue,but it is an issue with an air cooled large bore v-twin.
Your obvious lack of any experience with this type of engine means your recommendations could in reality damage a persons bike. Then what.
You've imply there is a bike shop behind you and that's great. You can ride the edge. However the reason people come here is to find an oil that will help their machines last forever,and you just don't have the best interest of the equipment at heart.
So you are actually doing this site a dis-service posting your tripe. All it does is confuse the folks who really don't know,and angers those who really try to make this a place to come for accurate info,which you don't do.
I think your here because all the Honda sites banned you because of the nonsense you post,as they should. Since your here anyways why not learn something. Your obviously clueless and could really be an asset to that shop by learning,instead of just spouting what you overheard a mechanic say while you were cleaning the inventory.
Instead of being the problem why not be part of the solution and absorb the info posted. Then instead of playing the role you could actual be real.
It's too bad you aren't local. I really mean that. I'd happily come by that shop and straighten out the wrinkles in your game.
But I fear you'll just keep trolling with your recommendations that don't consider differing operating conditions and different engine types.
I have no doubt in a Honda engine a 30 grade is fine. However the clutch and tranny are a different story. And that recommendation isn't suitable for those applications.
But you just can't absorb that thru your skull.
Sadly
