Has the internal combustion engine peaked?

[Gasbuggy]

Originally Posted By: whip
What improvements will we see for improved efficiency? In the 90's, small cars got 30-40 MPG. Have we dramatically improved since then?


A friend of mine is an engineer at Honda, he told me they could do an 80mpg car no problem if they only had to meet those old safety regulations. The gov. jams safety regulations on manufacturers that increase weight, then they slam them with economy and emissions requirements. No more lean cruise. The consumer foots the bill.

 

[Garak]

Agreed. I hinted at that in another thread. I would suggest that it would be wise for America's and Canada's transport authorities to reconsider some of the regulations about what we'd call a "city car." The government has little problem (I had better not speak too loudly, though, or they might) with me driving a moped, should I so choose, yet a very light car with minimal safety equipment to be used on 40 mph and slower roads only is not an option. Of course, in a province with only 4 months of decent weather, something like a motorcycle or moped obviously has limited appeal.

Oddly enough, a few small towns in the province are looking into allowing golf carts on their public roads. The average small town here has a speed limit of 40 km/h, so it's not likely for a semi to be going 110 km/h and finding themselves upon a golf cart.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I have always wondered why any OEM's did not pick up on hydrogen for internal combustion motors. Back in the early 70's, Popular Mechanics took a AMC Gremlin with a V8, converted it to run on hydrogen using basically the same components if they were converting to propane, and tested it. Was very promising. Excellent power, and just about the only thing out the tail pipe was water vapor. Obviously, they could not compare fuel costs for the consumer, as hydrogen was not, and still is not, a consumer retail fuel. But their analysis suggested that it was a viable alternative.

None of the expensive hydrogen fuel cell games that have been bandied about in recent years. Just feed an internal combustion engine some hydrogen, throw a spark, and have fun. One would think this is about as "green" as anything out there. Surely no carbon footprint issues. And California could use more rain!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_internal_combustion_engine_vehicle

http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/en/consumer/hydrogen/basics/utilization-ice.htm

 

[Garak]

It's a fantastic idea from a cleanliness standpoint, but hydrogen isn't really a fuel, per se, as it is a way to store energy you get from some other process. I take a shovel and dig some coal out of the ground, I've got some BTUs I never had before. I'm not going to collect hydrogen in any similar fashion. The most basic way to do it is through the electrolysis of water, and that takes as much energy to liberate the hydrogen as you get from burning the hydrogen, and that would be in a 100% efficient system, which doesn't exist.

Hydrogen would be fantastic, fuelling infrastructure aside, when power generation issues are settled.

 

[gregoron]

Originally Posted By: Shark
Originally Posted By: whip
What improvements will we see for improved efficiency? In the 90's, small cars got 30-40 MPG. Have we dramatically improved since then?


A friend of mine is an engineer at Honda, he told me they could do an 80mpg car no problem if they only had to meet those old safety regulations. The gov. jams safety regulations on manufacturers that increase weight, then they slam them with economy and emissions requirements. No more lean cruise. The consumer foots the bill.


I agree. That's why a lot of cars today (electric, hybrid, or ICE) weight so much is because of those safety and emissions regulations. Granted, a lot of the safety regulations do prevent injuries and even death, but some may be outdated and not necessary. Also, the push for more horsepower and electronic gadgets increase weight as well.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: HTSS_TR
Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: badtlc

Creating jobs in the name of destroying the environment.

Would you mind explaining this?

+1

Don't really understand what's the meaning of this statement !

It's a drama filled, agenda pushing statement. It's not based on fact. Move along.

 

[whip]

Originally Posted By: Shark
Originally Posted By: whip
What improvements will we see for improved efficiency? In the 90's, small cars got 30-40 MPG. Have we dramatically improved since then?


A friend of mine is an engineer at Honda, he told me they could do an 80mpg car no problem if they only had to meet those old safety regulations. The gov. jams safety regulations on manufacturers that increase weight, then they slam them with economy and emissions requirements. No more lean cruise. The consumer foots the bill.

The government and public is too hung up on safety, so we're not going backwards. Musk is right in the sense that hybrid/electric, is the future.

 

[Panzerman]

Yes and no. The internal combustible engine is being laden by such restrictive emission controls and bad gas (ethanol and E85)its really hard to advance. Back the EPA off and I think the car makers could easily get the gas mileage to 50 mpg.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I have always wondered why any OEM's did not pick up on hydrogen for internal combustion motors. Back in the early 70's, Popular Mechanics took a AMC Gremlin with a V8, converted it to run on hydrogen using basically the same components if they were converting to propane, and tested it. Was very promising. Excellent power, and just about the only thing out the tail pipe was water vapor. Obviously, they could not compare fuel costs for the consumer, as hydrogen was not, and still is not, a consumer retail fuel. But their analysis suggested that it was a viable alternative.


Like Garak said, where are you going to get the hydrogen to fuel the car?

Texas tea just pops out of the ground which makes it thermodynamically very favorable. Plus gasoline is a liquid, which helps a lot with energy density (not to mention storage). It's pretty tough to find a fuel less energy dense than hydrogen which makes it particularly unsuitable for motor vehicles.

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: hattaresguy
Pretty much, the last diesel car I'd buy is a 2005 E320CDI. Proper I6, mechanical, 40mpg...

These days a new E class diesel with all the [censored] on it can't beat it.


If it's a CDI it's not mechanical. Common rail Diesel Injection....

 

[Jetronic]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
Originally Posted By: hansj3
As stated hcci will be a jump in the right direction, pneumatic or solenoid driven valves will allow for infinite variability of valve timing
CNG is also great for the ice. Super clean burning, oci can be stretched even further. The CNG civic was even fun to drive. The Honda insight engine was full of little tweaks for efficiency. And it did well.

Weight and epa mandates are what's killing fuel efficiency



I figured we'd already have pneumatic or hydraulic valve actuation by now.
Once valve timing isn't limited by a cam it opens up a whole new world of possibilities.
You could have stump pulling torque right off the line,and spin it to the moon
Once the cam is eliminated what will be an engines limiting factor. Piston speed,vibration?


It's here already, the Dart offers an engine with it...

 

[badtlc]

Originally Posted By: moving2
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Creating jobs in the name of destroying the environment.

Would you mind explaining this?


Go read up on the production of Li-ion batteries. It absolutely destroys the environment. Parts of canada have been decimated. The damage done can't be undone readily.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Go read up on the production of Li-ion batteries. It absolutely destroys the environment. Parts of canada have been decimated. The damage done can't be undone readily.

But ... but ... but ...

It's electric!!!!

 

[KrisZ]

Originally Posted By: badtlc
Go read up on the production of Li-ion batteries. It absolutely destroys the environment. Parts of canada have been decimated. The damage done can't be undone readily.


Relax! Most of rare earth material mining is now done in China and Africa I believe. We don't have to protect the environment there. "Save the planet" only applies to countries that can be taxed and fined for those noble efforts.

 

[PandaBear]

Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: badtlc
Go read up on the production of Li-ion batteries. It absolutely destroys the environment. Parts of canada have been decimated. The damage done can't be undone readily.


Relax! Most of rare earth material mining is now done in China and Africa I believe. We don't have to protect the environment there. "Save the planet" only applies to countries that can be taxed and fined for those noble efforts.

Not in China for long. People there started rioting (with thousands or ten thousands of people at a time) and flipping police cars along the way when dealing with approval of polluting industries (i.e. paper mill).

 

[PandaBear]

Regarding to Li Ion.

I think there may be ways other than Lithium in battery. What about Sodium? What about super cap? Chinese have started using super cap on buses and put overhead quick charger on bus stop. Every time a bus stop for 30 sec it will quickly recharge for a couple miles. This makes perfect sense if you can control the entire infrastructure and application.

Also lets not forget the most old fashion energy storage device: flywheel. It is super efficient for stop and go application and it last ... well ... almost forever in short term storage.

Using these instead of Li-Ion battery will probably cut down its need for 50%, or make large battery in hybrid obsolete.