Where to find API SJ (1997) & SL (2001) specs?

[69GTX]

Tried a search on this forum for "SJ oil" or "API SJ" and nothing really comes up. The API site provides no numbers. Both of my cars are older with orig cats and I'm curious as to what the typical additive packs were at that time, particularly zinc and phosphorus. Found one old thread from 2005 that suggested SL had a max limit of 1000 ppm phos....the same as the current Mobil 1 HM oils (rated SL). One web page I found stated that SJ has a 1000 ppm max phos limit. Still trying to find out the Zinc numbers.

 

[Ramblejam]

https://www.infineum.com/media/80723/api-engine-oil-classifications.pdf

 

[69GTX]

Originally Posted By: Ramblejam
https://www.infineum.com/media/80723/api-engine-oil-classifications.pdf


Thanks Ramblejam. Confirms my thoughts on phosphorus. Zinc doesn't appear to be part of the API ratings.

 

[440Magnum]

The zinc and phosphorous numbers will track closely, if you find one you can infer the other since the bulk of both comes from the ZDDP compound in the additive package.

IIRC, SM is where caps on phosphorous content started getting tighter, which is why most performance and high-mileage oils still carry an SL rating.

Honestly, SL phosphorous levels should be fine in any newer vehicle, provided it doesn't burn oil like the Camry in another couple of threads running around currently . Its all about total dosage to the catcons over the miles operated- an engine that burns 1 quart per 5000 miles on 1000 PPM ZDDP oil will expose its catcons to exactly the same amount of zinc and phosphorous per mile driven as an engine that burns 1 quart per 2500 miles on 500 PPM ZDDP oil. And if that line of reasoning isn't enough, new vehicles are still being sold with xw40 oils specified, which even with an SN rating still allow for an SL-like ~1000 ppm dose of ZDDP.

 

[69GTX]

Good info 440 magnum. Thanks. The SM spec on phos. was 600-800. Whatever minor concerns I had about using 0W-40 where GM states 5W-30 have been alleviated. Nice to see another Mopar lover here. The '69 Dodge Coronet R/T was always my favorite B Body style. I looked for a number of years for the "right" R/T convertible and never could finish the deal. Did have a '69 383 SBee 727 that was a hoot to drive. My favorite driver of all the Mopars I had.

Can I ask what motor oil you are using for your SRT8? I'm hoping someday I'll pick up one of those as a "used" car 3-10 years down the road.

 

[A_Harman]

SH allowed 1200 ppm of Phosphorous.
SJ and SL allowed 1000.
SM and SN allow 600-800.
Zinc is not regulated.

 

[Rand]

zinc will track with phosphorous because of ZDDP

Only eneos has a low phosphorous zinc additive (afaik)

http://www.eneos.us/products/sustina-high-performance-motor-oil/sustina-0w-20/

 

[SR5]

Here is a link to a Penrite Technical Bulletin on Zinc in engine oils, including a bit of history. It also points out that the present 800 ppm P limit, only applies to ILSAC grades, and not to xW-40 or heavier oils

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs/0Zinc Myths & Legends Nov 2014.pdf

Also here is a VOA from Castrol Edge 10W60 from a few years a go

Here is a VOA from a few year a go.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2988455

aluminum 8
iron 1
silicon 7
titanium 47
moly 198
boron 59
calcium 2823
phosphorous 804
zinc 922

You can see the Phosphorus is at the 800ppm limit (with Zinc at a little over 900ppm), but it also has a decent amount of Moly, Boron and Titanium. All these do similar jobs, without being included in the P limit (i.e. ZDDP or ZDTP).

This is a modern 10W60 oil, so it has no P limit, yet they have still kept it to the 800 ppm P limit anyway.

The API SF and SG oil P limit is 1000ppm, yet many were around 800ppm anyway (according to Penrite). So just because it's SG, it doesn't mean it is high P (and therefore Zn), it just means it could be. It depends on the actual oil.

The take home I'm getting from reading around, is that they don't need as much P anyway, as they have improved the chemistry over time.

If you want a high Zinc oil, go for a HDEO or a street suitable racing oil (like VR-1) or a HM oil. But also consider the top shelf synthetics like M1 or Castrol Edge 0W40, maybe not as high in Zinc, but wear is well under control.

 

[SR5]

Just found this M1 0W-40 VOA

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2365762

Zn = 1023ppm
P = 893ppm
B = 221ppm
Ti = 0

So that's a nice amount of Zinc for you

 

[69GTX]

Thanks for all the inputs. That pretty much answers all my questions on the subject. The Penrite TB indicates Zinc level is typically 1.1x-1.2x the Phosphorus level.

That 4 year old VOA on M1 0w-40 is interesting as it has a higher TBN value (12.5) that what's currently advertised (11.8). Also the Zinc/Phos levels are about 10% lower than currently advertised. Either way works fine for me as I want both the engine protection from higher levels, without any additional risks to the Cats from too high a level. And 800-1100 ppm seems to offer that. Phosphorus levels in today's top grade oils are basically not any different than they were in the years of the SJ/SL specs. It's all good. Thanks.

 

[440Magnum]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX

Can I ask what motor oil you are using for your SRT8? I'm hoping someday I'll pick up one of those as a "used" car 3-10 years down the road.




I use Mobil 1 0w40. That was the factory fill for the first years of the SRT Hemi engine, but when Chrysler changed ownership they whole line moved over to using Pennzoil. So my 6.4 came filled with Pennzoil Ultra "SRT" 0w40. I find it more difficult to locate the Pennzoil SRT 0w40, so I just use Mobil. Its technically missing a Chrysler spec, but its a pretty lame spec- just a fleet endurance test. And it carries a whole lot more other specs than the Pennzoil Ultra 0w40 does.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: 69GTX
Thanks for all the inputs. That pretty much answers all my questions on the subject. The Penrite TB indicates Zinc level is typically 1.1x-1.2x the Phosphorus level.

That 4 year old VOA on M1 0w-40 is interesting as it has a higher TBN value (12.5) that what's currently advertised (11.8). Also the Zinc/Phos levels are about 10% lower than currently advertised. Either way works fine for me as I want both the engine protection from higher levels, without any additional risks to the Cats from too high a level. And 800-1100 ppm seems to offer that. Phosphorus levels in today's top grade oils are basically not any different than they were in the years of the SJ/SL specs. It's all good. Thanks.


I wouldn't worry to much about the differences between the spec sheet and the VOA. It may be a small formula change, it may be the variations from batch to batch. I think more than likely it's due to chemical analysis being better at picking up relative changes than absolute amounts. Best way to use oil analysis (in my view) to take a sample of virgin oil when doing a OC, and set it aside. When doing the next oil change, take a used oil sample. Then send them both off together. VOA and UOA of the same bottle done at the same time. Then compare relative differences.

Anyway, the full synthetic 0W-40 oils from M1 and Castrol Edge, are both premium products. Use with confidence.

Just found this M1 0W-40 VOA

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2365762

Zn = 1023ppm
P = 893ppm
B = 221ppm
Ti = 0
Mo = 74
TBN = 12.5