rotate tires on a new-to-me BMW 335i?

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I recently purchased a CPO BMW 335i xDrive Sedan. It has 20K miles and the original OE Pirelli Cinturato P7 all-season run-flats. There is no record of them ever being rotated and my Service Advisor says that BMW does not recommend tire rotations, though the tire manufacture does. Looking at the Owner's Manual I see a statement, "The manufacturer of your vehicle advises against switching wheels between the front and rear axles. This can impair the handling characteristics."

The tires are in great shape and I'd like them to last.Should I follow BMW's no-rotation recommendation, or is now a good time to rotate them (e.g. front to rear) and help ensure even wear and good treadlife?
 
Does the car use the same wheels front and rear? This may be why BMW advises against swapping them. The tire manufacturer makes tires. BMW integrated the tires into a larger system. Which company do you feel has a better understanding of the larger system?
 
Wonder if that policy from BMW has something to do with the xDrive system?

Also are you sure the tires are the exact same size?
 
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I would not.

BMW had problems in the EU with this all wheel drive system and tire rotations and especially with replacements of a single tire, this from a friend in Norway.
 
Originally Posted By: satinsilver
Wonder if that policy from BMW has something to do with the xDrive system?


In RWD cars they don't recommend it either. I think it has to do with the suspension geometry and not AWD. From my E46 service manual:

"BMW does not recommend tire
rotation. Due to the car's suspension
design, the front tires begin to wear
first at the outer shoulder and the rear
tires begin to wear first at the middle of
the tread or inner shoulder. Rotating
the tires may adversely affect road
handling and tire grip."

I would not rotate.

Less service to worry about as well.
 
In the past BMW recommended rotation every 3,000 miles to retain maximum road holding. In later years BMW decided that the extra cost was prohibitive. Not rotating resulted in better road holding over the shorter life of the tires. I would surmise that if the vehicle is only used as a daily driver, who is not expecting the maximum cornering ability, then I would rotate at 5-7,000 miles. Since you are way over a reasonable mileage to rotate, I would not rotate these tires. JMO.. Ed
 
how much do you think you're going to gain from rotations, factoring in the labor cost versus the tire rubber savings?

Just consider the 10% extra tire costs as the costs of owning the car to have proper tire performance.

Would you gimp your engine and drive a 328 because it saves you a couple thousand dollars? Why did you buy a 335?
That's basically the same argument of giving up performance to save money you would be doing by rotating the tires.
 
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Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Does the car use the same wheels front and rear? This may be why BMW advises against swapping them. The tire manufacturer makes tires. BMW integrated the tires into a larger system. Which company do you feel has a better understanding of the larger system?


This was my thinking. The 335i's have different size front and rear wheels. I don't know about the xDrive's though.
 
Originally Posted By: barlowc
I recently purchased a CPO BMW 335i xDrive Sedan.

How does this car compare to the 2013 ATS you owned before? Just curious.

As far as rotation, BMW advises against it because the rear typically has significant negative camber which wears the inner edges more. When you swap it out to the front, the handling gets negatively affected, and BMW does not want you to be unhappy that your UDM does not handle like a UDM.
smile.gif


However, if you rotate frequently enough, say every 3K miles, I'd guess the negatives would be greatly diminished. The question is, is it really worth your time and money to rotate so often?

Another option is to get the car realigned so that the rear camber isn't as aggressive, but still within the allowable range. Although, if you push the car to its limits and/or track it, there may be some slight handling impact again.

Oh yeah, I would also ditch the run-flats, but that would require getting an actual spare, which will eat up trunk space.
 
BMW has had this recommendation in place for close to two decades.

BMW offers staggered wheels as standard equipment on certain models, and as an option on most cars. These obviously shouldn't be rotated.

But even without staggered wheels, the cost to rotate wheels at the dealer is high. Far higher than any extension in tire life would justify.

I do rotate the tires on my BMWs, but that's primarily because the cost is essentially zero. I prefer to check out the brakes, look for damage and clean the back of the wheels. Rotating the tires is only trivially more effort and time.

But if I had to pay the dealer prices, or even wait while it was done, I wouldn't rotate.
 
Originally Posted By: Joshua_Skinner
Does the car use the same wheels front and rear?

Yes. 18 x 8.0 wheels with 225/45R18 tires on all four corners.

Originally Posted By: raytseng
how much do you think you're going to gain from rotations, factoring in the labor cost versus the tire rubber savings?

I can do (or have done) tire rotations for free.

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Just consider the 10% extra tire costs as the costs of owning the car to have proper tire performance. Would you gimp your engine and drive a 328 because it saves you a couple thousand dollars? Why did you buy a 335? That's basically the same argument of giving up performance to save money you would be doing by rotating the tires.

I don't follow what you're talking about here.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
How does this car compare to the 2013 ATS you owned before?

The ATS was lighter by about 350 lbs and more nimble. But I like the 335's powertrain A LOT better; much smoother delivery and more refined/precise with its shifts. I've only had the 335 for two weeks so I'm still getting used to it. As long as it doesn't require repairs/service 10% of the time that I own it like my ATS did, I'll be happy.

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
I would also ditch the run-flats

That's quite possibly what I will do when I have to replace these tires. If I had to pick out new all-season tires today they'd probably be a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS.

All in all I'm just looking to do the "right" thing. Maybe that's following BMW's recommendation but I don't like to blindly follow things without asking some questions and giving it some thought. I've noticed a very slight rotational noise that is more noticeable on certain pavements and at lower speeds and when realizing that the tires have never been rotated, it got me to wondering. Could just be the way this vehicle is.

Thanks for all the input guys!
 
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Rotating tires does not increase the performance of your car. It decreases your performance. The only purpose is to conserve rubber use.

Tires all wear a bit differently from square.
When you perform a rotation, it is not a performance improvement, the tire patch that is touching the road is decreased as it wears back to square then wear's back to it's optimal shape.

So the only reason people rotate tires is to save money, but doing so gives up performance

If you were to use up your tires without rotating, what are you going to save? Perhaps on the inside there's an extra 2 or 3/32 worth of rubber whereas the outside is worn out. If you've rotated, perhaps you could've used used that up. That is the limits of what you're trying to save.

Is it worth it to give up the performance, and drive on squirelly tires after each rotation, just to use up that extra 2 or 3/32s of rubber and save money?
If you are a person who would say YES to that question, you are a compromiser and by the same logic you should've bought a 328 instead of a 335 to also save money.

Since you DID buy a 335, your logic should be a NO to that question, and you are willing to throw out that last bit of tire to maintain the best performance.

Hope that clears it up.
 
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The tires are probably directional as well so your only going to be able to rotate back to front anyway.
 
Originally Posted By: barlowc
If I had to pick out new all-season tires today they'd probably be a set of Continental ExtremeContact DWS.

Just my opinion, but I wasn't impressed with DWS at all. Just a mediocre tire all around. There is now the new DWS 06... not sure how much they've improved on it.

Their winter capabilities were really lacking, even on an AWD car (C300 4matic). They became noisy quite early in their life, and wore out rather fast. That is why we now run dedicated winter tires on our vehicles, even though we do have all-seasons for the other 3 seasons of the year. But I realize not everyone wants to deal with two sets of tires/rims.
 
In my experience, if you don't have a staggered wheel tire set you should rotate them. The following article is courtesy of my friend Mike Miller, the Technical Editor for Bimmer and Roundel magazines:

Tire Rotation Examined
By Mike Miller

Initially, if your BMW has staggered tire and wheel sizing, meaning the rear tires are bigger than the front tires, click the little box in the upper right hand corner of your screen. You can't rotate your tires anyway.

BMW presently recommends against rotating tires. Here's why: In the US, it's normal to bend wheels occasionally, to one extent or another. And not all tires anywhere in the world are perfectly round. When a technician mounts and balances new tires, during the balancing process he will typically note which tire and wheel assembly is the "roundest", i.e., which has the least runout and requires the least weight to achieve 000 on the balancer. These two "roundest" assemblies he will mount at the front owing to BMW's incredible sensitivity to wheel balancing issues.

Then, down the road, the owner or another well-meaning tech rotates the tires front-to-rear. Next thing you know Old Jed's a millionaire -- you've got a vibration in the steering wheel. The reason is that one of the tire and wheel assemblies formerly at the rear and now at the front are not entirely round. If a technician rotated the tires, the customer then brings the car back to the shop complaining of a vibration, requiring a road test, dismounting, balancing, more road testing, etc. Often the customer will balk at paying for the additional work.

Moreover, at BMW dealerships, the customer satisfaction index (CSI) is hugely important in dealer relations with BMW of North America. When NA does a random CSI call on a service customer, scenarios like the foregoing result in comments like, "Well, I had my car at Big Mega Dealer and now I have a front-end vibration! So, I guess I can't give them a high score now can I?" The system is not set up for further explanation, and without that further explanation, the customer input impacts negatively on the dealer's CSI score. Eventually dealers complained to BMW of North America, and the end result is the no-rotation policy.

The thinking is, when you have a BMW that doesn't shake, leave it alone.

Now, armed with this knowledge, if you want to rotate your tires front-to-rear, there's no doubt that you'll get longer tire life. Just be aware of the possible balancing ramifications.

The presumption that the customer is incapable of understanding, or unwilling to understand, these issues is, unfortunately, often correct. However, Roundel Tech Talk takes the approach that it is better to at least attempt to educate people rather than throw out the baby with the bath water.


© 2002 Mike Miller
 
There are 'performance' benefits from rotating your tires. Rotating your tires can reduce tire noise by reducing the heal toe wear that develops naturally in a tire from rolling primarily in a single direction. Trailing edge of the tread blocks will wear faster than the leading edge, resulting in a 'saw-tooth' like profile which can generate a LOT of noise. Doesn't take much.
 
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