Who else is cheating on emissions?

[fdcg27]

It can't be VW alone, although I think that the chicanery VW had to resort to in qualifying its light diesels for both the US and EU markets goes a long way in explaining why the long rumored diesel Subarus and Hondas have yet to appear on this side of the water.
According to an article in this week's Economist, cheating on EU emissions tests is common and even winked at by regulators.
Many may recall that Cadillac was found to have used defeat logic similar to that used by VW on cars built some years back.
I'm wondering what other makers will be discovered to have used software rather than mechanical engineering to pass emissions tests?
VW may be the first, but I doubt that it'll be the last.

 

[Nick1994]

Yeah I'm sure there's some other manufacturers scrambling right now to fix something similar so they don't get caught.

 

[TiredTrucker]

The consequences of this situation is that it will broaden the reach of the EPA, probably even down to the individual auto/pickup owner. Of those states that do emissions testing, one can envision tough regulations being applied to the owners over what the OEM or third party was responsible for. In other words, a monster might have been unleashed. I sure hope not, but I have learned over the years that government agencies, once they have been dissed, usually over react and are going to make some parties pay for their insolence and make everyone toe the party line with little regard who it negatively affects.

 

[OneEyeJack]

Since emission levels are numbers picked by politicians there can be problems in the real world designing systems that not only meed the requirements but give the owner a smooth running engine that can outlast the warranty required for smog control devices and controls.

Evidently politicians that gained office based on a popularity contest driven by money and party connections suddenly become experts on the environment. Amazing.

 

[loneryder]

Bottom line: it's a giant money grab for the epa and states attorneys general. It's not about air quality. Look at the states and localities that don't even test emissions. They are missing out on these Paydays.

 

[CarbonSteel]

Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
The consequences of this situation is that it will broaden the reach of the EPA, probably even down to the individual auto/pickup owner. Of those states that do emissions testing, one can envision tough regulations being applied to the owners over what the OEM or third party was responsible for. In other words, a monster might have been unleashed. I sure hope not, but I have learned over the years that government agencies, once they have been dissed, usually over react and are going to make some parties pay for their insolence and make everyone toe the party line with little regard who it negatively affects.
I tend to agree. For the many who have "deleted" their light-duty diesel, I see the VW transgression as an enlightening that may focus the spotlight down to that level--especially in the metro areas. I have no plans to alter mine because to be honest, I like the fact that it does not smoke or smell.

 

[Mr Nice]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Bottom line: it's a giant money grab for the epa and states attorneys general. It's not about air quality. Look at the states and localities that don't even test emissions. They are missing out on these Paydays.


No vehicle emissions testing in Florida. Thank God.

State gets $$$$ from tourism taxes (hotels, rental car, etc...).

 

[raytseng]

Who is this mythical big green that you think the politicians are getting money from. Hippies in drum circles with their bicycles selling their vegan graola bars?

If you're going to claim corruption, who has the money. I think the auto industry and oil connects and would be the ones. Don't think for a second they already dont spend millions to lobby over the smallest thing that would affect them. How is fracking and water injeftion thst causes earthquakes in oklahoma a thing if the Big Green bogeyman exists.

I see the situation more like a child who came to an agrement they would go to bed at 10 and not only thst negotiated a few extension. Then even after that they got caught changing the clocks.

 

[Joe90_guy]

I just knew that sooner or later, evidence would start filtering out that some honest soul had stood up to warn VW that what they were doing was wrong, years before the crisis broke. And here it is...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34373637

Soon we'll start hearing that these people were shouted down or otherwise pilloried for simply speaking the truth. To whoever you are, I salute you sir! Pour yourself a bit one and enjoy the fact that you told them what would happen...

 

[Silverado12]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Who is this mythical big green that you think the politicians are getting money from. Hippies in drum circles with their bicycles selling their vegan graola bars?

If you're going to claim corruption, who has the money. I think the auto industry and oil connects and would be the ones. Don't think for a second they already dont spend millions to lobby over the smallest thing that would affect them. How is fracking and water injeftion thst causes earthquakes in oklahoma a thing if the Big Green bogeyman exists.

I see the situation more like a child who came to an agrement they would go to bed at 10 and not only thst negotiated a few extension. Then even after that they got caught changing the clocks.



Yes, and what makes it worse is that they were warned and continued to cheat on emissions.

 

[SLATRON]

+1

 

[SLATRON]

Originally Posted By: raytseng
Who is this mythical big green that you think the politicians are getting money from. Hippies in drum circles with their bicycles selling their vegan graola bars?

If you're going to claim corruption, who has the money. I think the auto industry and oil connects and would be the ones. Don't think for a second they already dont spend millions to lobby over the smallest thing that would affect them. How is fracking and water injeftion thst causes earthquakes in oklahoma a thing if the Big Green bogeyman exists.

I see the situation more like a child who came to an agrement they would go to bed at 10 and not only thst negotiated a few extension. Then even after that they got caught changing the clocks.


+1

 

[goodtimes]

It's probably in their emails.
I am very happy they have cut emissions over the years and the cars are cleaner, more powerful, run better, better mpg, and are much better cars than they ever were.

 

[HTSS_TR]

Originally Posted By: loneryder
Bottom line: it's a giant money grab for the epa and states attorneys general. It's not about air quality. Look at the states and localities that don't even test emissions. They are missing out on these Paydays.

I think it's more power grab than money. Any fine from any company will be credited to general Federal/state fund.

EPA and CARB will have more power and bigger(more employees) to do more than what they are doing now.

They may need to do actual real world testes as oppose to just laboratory tests. They also may need to buy vehicles as normal consumers at various dealers to do their tests, instead of company provided vehicles.

In the topic of others may do similar fake emission control as VW, I don't know and I don't like to accuse of anyone of violate the laws until there are concrete evidence of them doing so.

 

[lubricatosaurus]

Originally Posted By: Joe90_guy
I just knew that sooner or later, evidence would start filtering out that some honest soul had stood up to warn VW that what they were doing was wrong, years before the crisis broke. And here it is...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34373637

Soon we'll start hearing that these people were shouted down or otherwise pilloried for simply speaking the truth. To whoever you are, I salute you sir! Pour yourself a bit one and enjoy the fact that you told them what would happen...


Why didn't Johannes Arning and Thorsten Duesterdiek give orders saving the company from this scandal years ago? Winterkorn likely didn't know, but these two guys would have been right in the thick of battle with the engineering-software teams.
Interview Arning and Duesterdiek under a bright light (no waterboarding please), and you'll have your story.

This German dude could get them to talk:

raiders of the lost ark

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
VW may be the first, but I doubt that it'll be the last.

Exactly, we have to remember to post it in this thread and the first one about the issue. Someone there seems convinced that VW/Audi is the only automaker in the world who would ever consider doing such a thing, and no one else could possibly have done this.

 

[CT8]

Who else is cheating on emissions? Who really cares!

 

[cptbarkey]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Who else is cheating on emissions? Who really cares!


The U.S. Government, to justify and support its continued existence.

 

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: CT8
Who else is cheating on emissions? Who really cares!


I'll count you among those who do care, since you apparently read the thread and took the time to post a reply in it.

 

[Joe90_guy]

I suspect the people in the Adblue business must be rubbing their little hands with glee right now. On VW vehicles already fitted with SCR, once they remove that bit of the software which disables SCR under normal driving conditions, Adblue consumption will soar! I can't believe they will be retrofit SCR to those non-SCR engines that current cheat the system but who knows? Short of junking the entire car, it may be the ONLY thing they can do rectify the system.