Are there any PAO oils?

Status
Not open for further replies.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Originally Posted By: Benito
Originally Posted By: Clevy
And you obviously haven't looked at a Mobil pds lately


What does the Mobil pds tell us?
Many of "us" already know.


Really? How? There's no pour point and no Harman index.
crackmeup2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: 285south
What about Joe Gibbs oil?

Ask Joe Gibbs. Perhaps they'll give you an answer that will justify their ridiculous pricing.

As for Mobil 1 not being PAO any longer, that is such a blanket statement that it has to be dismissed as completely wrong, since there are PAO Mobil 1 examples.
 
For my gas pickup and my diesel semi truck and my diesel compact tractor. All of them get PAO / Group II+ Schaeffer syn blends. Just different viscosities.

Originally Posted By: AirgunSavant
I would assume for car use you'd be a big fan of quality syn blend oils?



Originally Posted By: TiredTrucker
I have become convinced that the strict PAO synthetic idea is one that has become archaic. Base oil technology has come a long ways in the last few years. I am into blends and have been for some time. Take the best of a couple of different base oils, combine them, throw in a strong add pack and enjoy.
 
Originally Posted By: Garak
Originally Posted By: 285south
What about Joe Gibbs oil?

Ask Joe Gibbs. Perhaps they'll give you an answer that will justify their ridiculous pricing.

As for Mobil 1 not being PAO any longer, that is such a blanket statement that it has to be dismissed as completely wrong, since there are PAO Mobil 1 examples.


I don't find their pricing ridiculous for what it is.

LN engineering's site describes the oil as "100% fully synthetic motor oils based on group 4 and group 5 base oils with a proprietary additive package developed exclusively for Joe Gibbs by Lubrizol and is not sold or marketed under any other name or brand."

I would post the link itself, but that would be considered advertising. Google finds it easily though.
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
I don't find their pricing ridiculous for what it is.

For their top end stuff, Bob, I'd agree. I get a little annoyed with their "entry level" stuff, which is way too high. For the guy who wants a bit extra ZDDP for a slightly aggressive cam on a classic, it's an outrageously expensive option. For something that actual needs an extremely stout anti-wear package, I can understand it.

At a car show, I actually almost bought some on a silent auction, since no one was actually bidding anything on the stuff (their "lower end" 10w-30). It turns out I would have gotten it cheaper than most off the shelf oils.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Originally Posted By: SR5
Penrite 10-Tenths Oil. It's 100% Group 4 + Group 5.
High Zinc with real API / ACEA / manufacturer specs.
Plus for me it's cheaper than M1 and Castrol Edge 0W40.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categ.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=4

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products-categ.php?id_categ=1&id_brand=3

Premium or Racing line.



Man that stuff looks like nectar of the gods!! Wish I could walk into Walmart and see a wall of it!
laugh.gif



You would love it mate, and the racing line is 100% shear stable and road safe with high TBN etc.

The sinister black packaging is just an added bonus.

Still, I must admit, oils like M1 / Edge 0W40 etc do have more manufacturer approvals, and I can get GTL Shell Helix Ultra 5W40 with MB 229.5 for less coin than all of them. But that warm inner glow of running a high zinc 100% PAO + Ester oil grabs me every so often. I recently sold my bike, and I made sure it had a fresh fill of 10-Tenths 10W40 racing in there (it's good for shared sumps) and everybody who looked at the bike appreciated that.
 
Originally Posted By: tig1
So what is it you want from an oil?



He and several others want an oil that is "REAL" synthetic. An oil that has a viscosity index of 750 with absolutely zero VII- because 50 years ago they were trouble. That same oil has to remain pump-able at absolute zero and exhibit no oxidation and "burn off" at temps that would only normally be witnessed on the surface of the sun. Said oil must possess an add pack that contains 200,000 ppm moly, zinc and phosphorus and have a starting TBN of 100. Even though this super oil is good for 200,000 mile drains, it's prospective buyers will run it for no more than 3000 miles, because "They are in the severe service category" and/or because it "Gets dark" too fast for their liking. Also, even though they have found their mythical unicorn tear filled lubricant, they will still use at least one, if not two grades over the manu's recommendation.



I can understand coming to a board such as this to learn. I can also understand wanting a superior product for you precious car... But what gets me is when people come here looking for answers but don't learn a darn thing and cling to old myths, prejudices and practices. What's the point of coming here to learn in the first place?

Full disclosure: I too was one of the idiotic noobs... You know... The Castrol "lawsuit".... I was full my self and confident of my superior knowledge. After all I was a "car guy" too and could make a few (unsupported) observations. However, somewhere along the line I realized that the people of this board and the sources that they were citing (you know- the manufacturers that spend 10's of millions in R&D) may not be wrong after all.
 
^^^^^ Don't forget running it to redline on onramps. That's pretty much the autobahn and really stresses the oil
smile.gif
.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
From the research I have done, weighing all the pros and cons, the only thing I was "looking" for was something that was "synthetic" enough for my liking.

I just couldn't swallow that dewaxed crude is "synthetic".

I am personally happy with GTL being classified as a "full synthetic".

That should open up your options a bit...


All this does is expose your lack of understanding of base oils.

A "dewaxed crude" is essentially a Group I/II type. Group III involved actual manipulation of chemical bonds rather than a purification process. Both Group III and GTL take a waxy intermediate product and feed it into the hydrocracker to get the final base oil. The main difference is the source of the waxy intermediate - either refined from crude oil (Gp III) or synthesised from natural gas (GTL).
 
Originally Posted By: 285south
Mobil 1 isn't PAO anymore right?


Ten years ago, PAO oils were so called because, except for the carrier oil for additives, the base oil was all PAO. Then a short time later Mobil started using other base oils in addition to PAO in their Mobil1 product offerings. Now it appears that an oil containing at least some PAO oil is referred to as a PAO oil. Sort of like calling an oil containing GII and GIII a “synthetic”. But such is where we are today. Fortunately, the oils themselves continue to improve for the most part.
 
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: 285south
Mobil 1 isn't PAO anymore right?


Ten years ago, PAO oils were so called because, except for the carrier oil for additives, the base oil was all PAO. Then a short time later Mobil started using other base oils in addition to PAO in their Mobil1 product offerings. Now it appears that an oil containing at least some PAO oil is referred to as a PAO oil. Sort of like calling an oil containing GII and GIII a “synthetic”. But such is where we are today. Fortunately, the oils themselves continue to improve for the most part.


Sounds right. ksachan and CATERHAM the other day were mentioning a critical link to understanding all this: http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007
Reading that might clear a lot up. Its an Exxon-Mobil presentation from almost 10 years ago.
One part of it:
DNtwVIk.jpg
 
Since the evidence indicating Mobil was not using PAO exclusively in their Mobil1 product offerings came here before any mention was made of Visom, I always wondered whether the release of Visom information was held. And even after the Visom information became more available, Mobil was still attempting to highlight their use of PAO, even if it was a blend of PAO and other base oils as evidenced here.

All of that stuff is old news now and doesn't necessarily pertain to anything today, but I'm linking to it as a view of an event in the past for any interested. In the day, it was a big deal here. And Mobil's evasiveness at the time only intensified the issue.
 
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: 285south
Mobil 1 isn't PAO anymore right?


Ten years ago, PAO oils were so called because, except for the carrier oil for additives, the base oil was all PAO. Then a short time later Mobil started using other base oils in addition to PAO in their Mobil1 product offerings. Now it appears that an oil containing at least some PAO oil is referred to as a PAO oil. Sort of like calling an oil containing GII and GIII a “synthetic”. But such is where we are today. Fortunately, the oils themselves continue to improve for the most part.


IIRC "Tri-Syn" was more than 10 years ago and that designation was due to the combination of base oils used which were PAO, AN's and POE.
 
Originally Posted By: lubricatosaurus
Originally Posted By: Brian Barnhart
Originally Posted By: 285south
Mobil 1 isn't PAO anymore right?


Ten years ago, PAO oils were so called because, except for the carrier oil for additives, the base oil was all PAO. Then a short time later Mobil started using other base oils in addition to PAO in their Mobil1 product offerings. Now it appears that an oil containing at least some PAO oil is referred to as a PAO oil. Sort of like calling an oil containing GII and GIII a “synthetic”. But such is where we are today. Fortunately, the oils themselves continue to improve for the most part.


Sounds right. ksachan and CATERHAM the other day were mentioning a critical link to understanding all this: http://www.motor-talk.de/forum/aktion/Attachment.html?attachmentId=695007
Reading that might clear a lot up. Its an Exxon-Mobil presentation from almost 10 years ago.
One part of it:
DNtwVIk.jpg



If you read further into the presentation,it goes on to say something to the effect of "this move from a pao to a grp III+ base oil will be done with no knowledge to the consumers". Was this Exxon trying to formulate a cheaper product while charging more money thus increasing profits? Me,I have no earthly idea,just paraphrasing and interpreting what was said in that presentation. Maybe crude makes for a better base oil than pao? Only thing I know is that Mobil 1 uoa's look better now than ever. Maybe they've achieved the "perfect balance" of base oils and adds. I still use M1,and have some 10W40 and 15W50 in my small stash.
 
Pricing of motor oil, I suspect, is as much a function of marketing position as it is base stock cost. Certain primarily PAO oils are actually significantly cheaper than their Group III counterparts.
 
Originally Posted By: aquariuscsm
Was this Exxon trying to formulate a cheaper product while charging more money thus increasing profits?

Some of that may have factored into their thinking. I don't think they gave up much performance, and even planned to GAIN on wear performance (cold cranking & deposits worse very slightly). Today's M1 0w-40 and M1 EP oils use around half PAO right now, so its not like its gone. Mix of Group3 and PAO is a good idea. Meets/exceeds all the euro specs, good-to-go. PAO isn't the only game in town. Additive tech and Group3 quality carries the day.
 
Originally Posted By: BobFout
Originally Posted By: Garak
285south said:
What about Joe Gibbs oil?

Ask Joe Gibbs. Perhaps they'll give you an answer that will justify their ridiculous pricing.

I don't find their pricing ridiculous for what it is.



Why do some of the Gibbs racing oils have such low (75,000lbs) shear strength??
Click to expand...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Superbuick96
2021 statistics of "Post your latest oil change"
2 3
Replies
58
Views
8K
Urshurak776
bbhero
"Lower tier " oils you have run...
6 7 8
Replies
149
Views
19K
DirectRejection
MolaKule
  • Locked
Updated List of MTF's (both GL-4 and GL-5)
2
Replies
35
Views
10K
Ruturaj
O
Are There Any "Fully Synthetic" Engine Oils...
4 5 6
Replies
105
Views
12K
tolian21
C
WM - All SP Rated Oils In Stock
Replies
3
Views
1K
Gyro Gearloose
Back
Top