VW TDI / were they making more power than claimed?

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wemay

wemay

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DISPLACEMENT:
121 cu in, 1968 cc
Power: 150 hp @ 3500 rpm
Torque: 236 lb-ft @ 1750 rpm

Aren't these published numbers achieved on a dyno, and wasn't the 'cheat device' set to recognize when the car was on a dyno? Thus lowering the power numbers for the sake of lower emissions.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.
 
Its well known in the Focus ST & WRX community that the GTI's are underrated by 30-40 hp, verified by dyno runs.

So who knows about the TDI's...
 
I have the CCTA emissions tune GTI and it feels like it has more than 200 horsepower.
I owned an 07' WRX before the GTI and much prefer the engine in my GTI.
 
All I know is that my brother was blowing past EPA MPG numbers in his Golf TDI (2011 or 12, I forget).
 
Originally Posted By: wemay
DISPLACEMENT:
121 cu in, 1968 cc
Power: 150 hp @ 3500 rpm
Torque: 236 lb-ft @ 1750 rpm

Aren't these published numbers achieved on a dyno, and wasn't the 'cheat device' set to recognize when the car was on a dyno? Thus lowering the power numbers for the sake of lower emissions.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.



Emission testing uses the IM240 and a couple of other test in the US. Dyno for max HP are two completely different cycles.
 
Last edited:
The test the software was designed to "cheat" is the EPA test that determines emissions and fuel economy. The engIne settings that reduced emissions also reduced fuel economy, explaining why real-world drivers do better than EPA estimates.

Horsepower ratings are independent of the EPA test cycle though, so they should be represtative of real-world (i.e. higher polluting) power. I think.
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: wemay
achieved on a dyno, and wasn't the 'cheat device' set to recognize when the car was on a dyno? Thus lowering the power numbers for the sake of lower emissions.
Please correct me if i'm wrong.

Emission testing uses the IM240 and a couple of other test in the US. Dyno for max HP are two completely different cycles.


When you put your car on the dyno at the state DMV or Air Quality Authority for emissions testing, does that just test for gross polluters and these VW-Audi's pass that test?
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I have the CCTA emissions tune GTI and it feels like it has more than 200 horsepower.
I owned an 07' WRX before the GTI and much prefer the engine in my GTI.


Do tell. What does more than 200hp feel like. What rpm does this "feeling" come over you and pray tell how exactly can you tell.

This posts is today's winner. Thus far anyways
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Originally Posted By: wemay
DISPLACEMENT:
121 cu in, 1968 cc
Power: 150 hp @ 3500 rpm
Torque: 236 lb-ft @ 1750 rpm

Aren't these published numbers achieved on a dyno, and wasn't the 'cheat device' set to recognize when the car was on a dyno? Thus lowering the power numbers for the sake of lower emissions.

Please correct me if i'm wrong.



Emission testing uses the IM240 and a couple of other test in the US. Dyno for max HP are two completely different cycles.
Originally Posted By: Danh
The test the software was designed to "cheat" is the EPA test that determines emissions and fuel economy. The engIne settings that reduced emissions also reduced fuel economy, explaining why real-world drivers do better than EPA estimates.

Horsepower ratings are independent of the EPA test cycle though, so they should be represtative of real-world (i.e. higher polluting) power. I think.


This is what i was thinking too but Trav's post advises otherwise.
 
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
All I know is that my brother was blowing past EPA MPG numbers in his Golf TDI (2011 or 12, I forget).


My sis in law too with Jetta Wagon however cold weather she got
Party is over....
 
Originally Posted By: skyactiv
I have the CCTA emissions tune GTI and it feels like it has more than 200 horsepower.
I owned an 07' WRX before the GTI and much prefer the engine in my GTI.


The low end torque with flat curve(1800-6000) was an asset of GTI motor vs a more hyper WRX motor with a bit more but at a lofty 3600RPM for peak.
 
There is some misunderstanding. Yes the HP numbers were probably lower due to the algorithm they used to change engine parameters when the ecm detected a IM drive cycle.
If you were to dyno for max HP that algorithm would not be triggered because you would run up it full throttle which is never used in IM test cycles.

The published HP numbers were achieved with full throttle so the "cheat" algorithm would not be engaged because no emission drive cycle was detected.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Trav
There is some misunderstanding. Yes the HP numbers were probably lower due to the algorithm they used to change engine parameters when the ecm detected a IM drive cycle.
If you were to dyno for max HP that algorithm would not be triggered because you would run up it full throttle which is never used in IM test cycles.

The published HP numbers were achieved with full throttle so the "cheat" algorithm would not be engaged because no emission drive cycle was detected.


the "dyno calibration" wouldn't have produced much bhp at all without switching to "road calibration" so it's a moot point.
 
Originally Posted By: CT8
I am heartbroken VW was caught what ever the reason.


This is just sad commentary of the state of our country. If someone ever does something illegal against you, should we state that we are heartbroken they were caught?
 
Originally Posted By: Nate1979
Originally Posted By: CT8
I am heartbroken VW was caught what ever the reason.


This is just sad commentary of the state of our country. If someone ever does something illegal against you, should we state that we are heartbroken they were caught?


+1
 
Dyno calibration means the car knows it is being emission tested. It is on dyno for both emission testing and power measuring but the car is "smart" enough to know the difference.

That is the explanation for the non-technical folks. Do not get confused by the terminology of "dyno calibration" versus "road calibration". VW thought calling it "emission testing calibration would have been too obvious :)
 
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