I have heard the M meant "Modified", but have also heard it stood for "Mexico" or "Midland" as to where these engines were built.
Anyone have a definitive answer or is this Ford folklore?
Anyone have a definitive answer or is this Ford folklore?
Ford 351M or 400M, what does the 'M' stand for?
- Thread starter stchman
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Modified.
Back in the day I was always told the M was for modified, and the W engine stood for windsor.
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Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Modified.
+1 - I have also heard "Michigan".
Modified.
+1 - I have also heard "Michigan".
M=Modified C=Cleveland W=Windsor
Oh yes, I forgot all about the C
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
Sure it does, that it stands for Modified or Michigan, but definitely not Mexico, LOL!
Logically, you would think it was Michigan given that that's where it was made and the W was made in Windsor and the C was made in Cleveland. However it WAS a modified Cleveland and subsequently that's where the "Modified" designation has its basis.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
Sure it does, that it stands for Modified or Michigan, but definitely not Mexico, LOL!
Logically, you would think it was Michigan given that that's where it was made and the W was made in Windsor and the C was made in Cleveland. However it WAS a modified Cleveland and subsequently that's where the "Modified" designation has its basis.
The M stands for Modified, but not in a good way. It's set up for smog by having low compression and an EGR valve. The 351C-2V made between 1970 and 1973 is the best 351 engine (in stock form).
Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
The M stands for Modified, but not in a good way. It's set up for smog by having low compression and an EGR valve. The 351C-2V made between 1970 and 1973 is the best 351 engine (in stock form).
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
I'm more of an FE or 385 ford engine series fan myself.
The M stands for Modified, but not in a good way. It's set up for smog by having low compression and an EGR valve. The 351C-2V made between 1970 and 1973 is the best 351 engine (in stock form).
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
I'm more of an FE or 385 ford engine series fan myself.
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
Have you played with the Aussie Heads ?
Detomaso bought the last production of the Aussie 351s for the Pantera and Longchamp's
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
Have you played with the Aussie Heads ?
Detomaso bought the last production of the Aussie 351s for the Pantera and Longchamp's
Originally Posted By: Shannow
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
Have you played with the Aussie Heads ?
Detomaso bought the last production of the Aussie 351s for the Pantera and Longchamp's
Those heads in the 2v and 4v versions are pretty wicked. I've read a lot about them, but never got to actually see them in action.
Originally Posted By: MuzzleFlash40
Starting in 72 the Cleveland lost it's compression and it's power. Depending on your use would depend on if a 2v head or 4v head was better. Not counting the 2 barrel or 4 barrel that came factory. The 2v heads were better for street use and the 4v heads were designed for high rpm or track use.
Have you played with the Aussie Heads ?
Detomaso bought the last production of the Aussie 351s for the Pantera and Longchamp's
Those heads in the 2v and 4v versions are pretty wicked. I've read a lot about them, but never got to actually see them in action.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
Sure it does, that it stands for Modified or Michigan, but definitely not Mexico, LOL!
Logically, you would think it was Michigan given that that's where it was made and the W was made in Windsor and the C was made in Cleveland. However it WAS a modified Cleveland and subsequently that's where the "Modified" designation has its basis.
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
Originally Posted By: stchman
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
I was told by a lot of Ford guys that it stood for "Mexico".
I could believe this since "Modified" sounds a lot cooler than "Mexico".
Nope. There's actually a pretty good Wiki on it:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ford_335_engine#351_M
Originally Posted By: wikipedia
351M/400 naming convention confusion
There exists debate as to what Ford intended the "M" designation of the 351M to refer to. Some claim the "M" stands for “Modified” - being modified from a 400 V8 with a shortened stroke - though others claim that the "M" refers to the Michigan Casting Center, where the 351M began production. There is also some who say that the "M" designation has no official meaning, and it was just Ford's way of distinguishing the 351M for the 351C and 351W.[28]
Likewise, Ford's use of the 400 block in the creation of the 351M engine has resulted in the 400 mistakenly being referred to as the "400M" or "400 Modified." This is despite the 400 having been the design basis from which the "modified" 351M was derived and it was in production several years before Ford used the "M" designation. Further confusion arises from Ford printing "351M/400" on the emission stickers for the engine. The "351M/400" referenced the engine family, but it may be confused as the engine name. Ford's official name for the 400 V8 contains no additional designations - the proper nomenclature is simply "400."
Still does not clarify anything.
Sure it does, that it stands for Modified or Michigan, but definitely not Mexico, LOL!
Logically, you would think it was Michigan given that that's where it was made and the W was made in Windsor and the C was made in Cleveland. However it WAS a modified Cleveland and subsequently that's where the "Modified" designation has its basis.
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: stchman
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
Well I've been a pretty hardcore Ford guy, grew up in a Ford family and I've NEVER heard anybody say the M was for Mexico. Now, there was a Mexican 302 block that was desirable due to having a thicker casting, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Ultimately the 400 and 351M are just Cleveland family engines. The 400 did not share a Cleveland sibling so it didn't need a separate designation. The 351M, being a Cleveland, but different than the original 351 Cleveland was given the M designation because it was a MODIFIED 400 manufactured in MICHIGAN.
There's no mention of Mexico because it isn't relevant to the history of the engine.
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
Well I've been a pretty hardcore Ford guy, grew up in a Ford family and I've NEVER heard anybody say the M was for Mexico. Now, there was a Mexican 302 block that was desirable due to having a thicker casting, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Ultimately the 400 and 351M are just Cleveland family engines. The 400 did not share a Cleveland sibling so it didn't need a separate designation. The 351M, being a Cleveland, but different than the original 351 Cleveland was given the M designation because it was a MODIFIED 400 manufactured in MICHIGAN.
There's no mention of Mexico because it isn't relevant to the history of the engine.
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Originally Posted By: stchman
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
Well I've been a pretty hardcore Ford guy, grew up in a Ford family and I've NEVER heard anybody say the M was for Mexico. Now, there was a Mexican 302 block that was desirable due to having a thicker casting, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Ultimately the 400 and 351M are just Cleveland family engines. The 400 did not share a Cleveland sibling so it didn't need a separate designation. The 351M, being a Cleveland, but different than the original 351 Cleveland was given the M designation because it was a MODIFIED 400 manufactured in MICHIGAN.
There's no mention of Mexico because it isn't relevant to the history of the engine.
I grew up with my Dad having many of these engines. I called him today and had a little chat and he still calls the 400 a "modified" even though it is not. Old habits die hard.
Originally Posted By: stchman
No is does not.
The wiki talks about a "debate", some say "Modified", some say "Michigan", some say the M is meaningless, still no definitive answer. I've had a few hardcore Ford guys tell me it is "Mexico".
You would think the people that designed the engine that worked for Ford would still be alive. Why didn't anybody ask them?
Well I've been a pretty hardcore Ford guy, grew up in a Ford family and I've NEVER heard anybody say the M was for Mexico. Now, there was a Mexican 302 block that was desirable due to having a thicker casting, but that's not relevant to this discussion.
Ultimately the 400 and 351M are just Cleveland family engines. The 400 did not share a Cleveland sibling so it didn't need a separate designation. The 351M, being a Cleveland, but different than the original 351 Cleveland was given the M designation because it was a MODIFIED 400 manufactured in MICHIGAN.
There's no mention of Mexico because it isn't relevant to the history of the engine.
I grew up with my Dad having many of these engines. I called him today and had a little chat and he still calls the 400 a "modified" even though it is not. Old habits die hard.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Yeah, lots of guys do that one
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