gas additive with friction modifiers?????

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howdy.I found SoyUltra gas additive and have been pleased with it,but the cost of adding a 12 oz bottle per 15 gal of gas is to much. I am looking for a product like fp+ ect... where I add a few ounces per tank. I am looking for friction modifiers in the gas additive.
Anyone know if if such a product is made??
thanks
 
yes for the whole fuel system. Upper cyl and top piston rings.

There are many scientific studies being done that I have read, and seems to be a good idea to help with wear and mpg. But I am no scientist.
 
Originally Posted By: hyperscion
http://papers.sae.org/2001-01-1961/
another paper.
I like the soy ultra product but it is to costly for me.

just wondering if anyone used something similar.


Notice the Affiliation in the paper: Texaco wants to sell a fuel additive.

Engine oil provides the upper cylinder lubrication with its oil film, AW and FM additives.
 
Originally Posted By: hyperscion
yes for the whole fuel system. Upper cyl and top piston rings.

There are many scientific studies being done that I have read, and seems to be a good idea to help with wear and mpg. But I am no scientist.


As mentioned by Mola before: single pass (typical 2T engines w/o crankcase, pressurised lubrication systems, etc.) 2T oil does the job of lubricating the piston rings and such.

For multi-pass IC engines, it's the engine oil on cylinder wall that provides all the needed piston ring lubrication, and there's never such need to add additional oil mix with gas to provide that "so-called" upper cylinder lubrication.

Gone were the days where poorly engineered IC engines may require a bit of help on the upper cylinder lubrication part. Nowadays, never such a thing called upper cylinder lubrication and engines can still live many hundreds of thousands of miles with regular gasoline and conventional lubrication schemes and motor oil.

Trav mentioned that nowadays, engines are so well engineered/executed the he hasn't seen tapered engine upper cylinder portion when tearing down after a few hundreds of thousands of miles.

Show some facts please.
 
I dont know. I was thinking that gas in upper cyl can wash the thin oil layer away. I just had mild mpg improvement with soy ultra, like 1 mpg over the last six months. Engine idle was quieter I thought maybe due to the fm in the additive???

Ok just caught the Texaco part in the Paper I read. That paper is now suspect.

thanks for the the input.
 
One of the most excellent, all-time must read posted here on BITOG many moons ago.

Read and re-read carefully:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubb...als#Post3242475

BTW: link is now broken and can be substituted with the following alternative post link:

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CB0QFjAAahUKEwjZ54WSnYzIAhVBe5IKHYVuDx4&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ms-motorservice.cn%2Ffileadmin%2Fmedia%2FMAM%2FPDF_Assets%2Fks_50003958-02_web_53094.pdf&usg=AFQjCNEGLm-MB6QiBRplUUFYGtaTodVBMw&cad=rja

Q.
 
Show some facts please.

I said that Im no scientist. Just a regular Joe asking a few questions. If I had facts I would not be asking questions.

Ease up on the the coffee or beer.
 
lastly, my 2cent's worth RE: engine lubrication subject RE: upper cylinder lubrication.

Gone were the days where a rather archaic carburettor to richen the fuel-air mixture during cold starts, where most of the unoptimised carb could literally dump raw fuel into the otherwise cold cylinder inside a cold, cold engine, causing cylinder "wash" where engine oil film was literally dissolved in gasoline and washed down into the crankcase. In those days (carb'ed engine, with poor fuel-air mixing and metering), engine cylinder bore (upper portion) tapering after many tens of thousands of miles were common, due to frequent cylinder wall washout.

Nowadays, fuel metering and high pressure fuel injectors with pre-determined fuel-air mixture ration during cold start up, this cylinder wall "washout" has been greatly minimised. As a result: you don't see a lot of upper cylinder wall wear (tapering) due to lack of lubrication (washed away by unburned gasoline).

No need to feed those mysterious magical elixir that claimed all the miracle-in-the-world when mixed with gas, period. In fact: many other motoring industrialised countries outside of US of A do not even know/aware of such additional need of UCL, and their engines still live many long, long happy service miles.

Go figure.

Q.
 
UCL does make a difference in certain engines, especially my car. If it doesn't make a difference for you, it doesn't mean that applies to every car.

In my car, when I run redline Si-1, even at maintenance levels, the engine is slightly smoother.
Similar effect with the new shell permium nitro.
Idle is less burbly.

Does it effect MPG or any metric that I can measure? no. just slightly smoother, and quieter at idle.
 
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Originally Posted By: hyperscion
Show some facts please.

I said that Im no scientist. Just a regular Joe asking a few questions. If I had facts I would not be asking questions.

Ease up on the the coffee or beer.


Fact is in that link, by SK industries.

Read and re-read as many times as you want. It pretty much provides all the information needed to both engineers (engine designs), rebuilders, service technicians.

It contains the wealth of information that would otherwise require you to deep-dive in a library for days if not months at a time looking for technical information related to engine and piston rings.

Q.
 
I've been conducting a scientific study for 24 years and I have yet to find any need for an upper cylinder lubricant added to the fuel. I've never lost an engine due to upper cylinder wear. The other added benefit is supposed to be better fuel economy. Is the additive cheaper than the fuel you adding it to? And is that argueable gain in fuel economy enough to offset the cost of the additive? I say no.
 
That is what I was wondering. The pump and injectors do not need this. Quest said it best when pertaining to modern engines. When you do see some magic fuel lube / cleaner at the local parts store, the bottle always says lubes the fuel pump and injectors. They do not need this. In a modern car, whats the point. Cars are going 200K miles + without and friction modifier. I just don't see the point.
 
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