94 Accord EX 4cyl - first time timing belt, flush+

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FYI i'm still fixing my dodge caravan first before I even touch this one BUT I have to order parts for this one because it's coming up immediately after.
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First I need the minivan working so GF can drive that while I work on the honda because i'm disabled so my work is extremely slow. If i'm too verbose jump to the bottom to see what i'm asking for.



I was hoping someone might have experience with the 5th gen Honda Accord (owned by girlfriend) which is I think dramatically behind on maintenance and of course only I am able to turn any wrenches while she can barely afford the parts. I tried posting on driveaccord.net but there's very little owners back this far/theyre mostly newer owners.


The vehicle is a 1994 Accord 4cyl automatic EX with about 235,000 miles on it. Maintenance history largely unknown but ample signs of later life neglect (broken door handle, hood wont open or close cuz the latch was gummed up though i sorta fixed that, etc) though I think early on it was better taken care of. I have feeling they wouldn't have paid for scheduled maintenance near end. I'm guessing no timing belt has been done since 100,000 there's even a chance one has never been done.

I would like the car to last up to another 70,000 miles if it could while were both trying to get into or finish through college. The transmission fluid is pink with no stink and shifts strong (if rather busy/slightest touch of throttle and it downshifts but then it has no power) so i'm guessing the low torque automatic shouldn't be killed by it for awhile. There are some misc leaks and other stuff (engine oil lost 1.5 quarts in last 3000, and think its leaking it not eating it) but first things first.


I'm pretty sure the timing belt has to be done since I have no evidence. I've never done a timing belt before. If there is a way to inspect it and guesstimate remaining life that is okay too - please tell me that first before I even order anything.

If i'm going in that deep I might as well do the water pump as prophylaxis unless people disagree, rather not have it fail in middle of winter or something later. I think it needs to come off to do the timing belt anyway.

Obviously if going that far might as well do a flush of the radiator, engine block, and heater core esp as I hear those cores gum up often later in life on this model. I don't know when the coolant was last changed if ever. I've never done a coolant flush before.



Asking first how to inspect the timing belt (if there's any chance it was done at 200k and still good for awhile as I have no evidence it was ever done), second which timing belt kit to order (from amazon or another etailer, or B&M if cheaper) potentially including water pump (that hasn't died but with this much work I might as well swap to be safe at this age?), as well as if anything else special would be needed for this job. (tools etc to get)

Followups from me ie inspection pictures on this may be slow as the car is out of town, just ordering for when it gets back in 1-2 weeks.
 
If there is no documentation to show that the timing belt has been done in the past hundred thousand, then it should be done.
Certainly replace the water pump and tensioner while you're in there.
There is also a retainer for the cam seal that should be installed.
These engines can run for a very long time with no real problems, but a busted timing belt will kill them.
Another minor sore point with these are leaking spark plug tube seals.
 
I just did a timing belt and water pump on my 6th Gen accord. I bought my aisin timing belt kit from rock auto. It came with the belts water pump and Honda springs to tension belt. I also got new spark plugs and a new valve cover gasket.
 
Unfortunately there isn't a way of telling the age of a timing belt by looking at it. Some that are really cracked last a lot further, while some that look brand new sometimes break.

Look under the hood by the timing belt cover and all over for a tag if someone put the sticker on for when it was done, or look in the owners manual and glove box for it. There's a chance it could be there.

I had a mechanic shop change the timing belt on my TDI earlier this year and they used a marker and wrote directly on the timing belt cover "165K"
 
Originally Posted By: yesthatsteve
Eric the Car Guy has a video manual covering a timing belt replacement in the B-series engine. Price is reasonable, and his videos are typically detailed. http://www.ericthecarguy.com/1990-2002-honda-f-series-timing-belt-replacement-vmanual


i purchased this video a few years back and can vouch for it, it does leave some ambiguity but there are plenty of other people who have done it on youtube for no charge.
 
FWIW, I've changed the timing belt on my 94 Accord twice now, the first time I used a Gates kit with the Chinese water pump. That started leaking about 35,000 miles later, getting the belt and tensioners wet with coolant. I bought an Aisin kit the second time (which is OEM to my Toyotas) and that one has been fine now for over 50,000 miles. There was a night and day difference between the build quality between those two pumps. Even though Aisin isn't OEM to Honda I would haver no hesitation to use their kit.

And IMHO always replace the water pump when doing the timing belt, the incremental cost isn't that much and if it fails later, it may cause a whole lot of problems.

I also can't say enough good things about Honda Type 2 fluid either. The previous owner used some generic green coolant and there were deposits in places. Since using the Type 2 I have never seen that happen.
 
I think around here the labor to do TB on a 4 cyl engine is around $200-250 including the water pump too. You should always replace the pump with the belt.
 
What sort of tools do you have? These Accords are well known to have very tight crank pulley bolts, you will need a very decent impact gun, or a very long breaker bar to break those loose.
 
Originally Posted By: chrome
What sort of tools do you have? These Accords are well known to have very tight crank pulley bolts, you will need a very decent impact gun, or a very long breaker bar to break those loose.


+1 on the crank pulley bolt. I had a '94 Accord and getting that bolt off wasn't fun. I ended up using a long breaker bar (and kicking it) after my impact wrench wouldn't budge it. I think I wedged a crow bar in the ring gear to keep the crank from turning. I have also since heard that some people have been successful getting the bolt off with a breaker bar - but wedging it against something solid and bumping the starter.

It has been over 10 years since I did that job in my driveway and I don't remember it being much fun. The balancer shaft belt was fiddly to get tensioned correctly if I remember right. I think I had to turn the engine backwards slightly to get the slack out of it - but my memory is fuzzy on that. Getting the plastic timing belt cover out without damaging the timing pointer was cute too.

Andrew S.
 
Sllooooowww followups but everything I do gets dragged out impossibly long because i'm disabled. (my clutch job took two months because I had no help and it was middle of winter so be warned)


Just to FYI i'm seeing leaking that I wasn't before - it only happens when the system is pressurized, this dang honda has so many wires and cables and [censored] that I can't even see the water pump from the top (i'm not sure if I threw a bucket of water inside the hood if any would touch the pavement for at least five minutes) but I wouldn't be surprised if it's the water pump...

I've seen videos online https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TMR9PG3fko which seem to be detailed enough, although not every video has all the best tips. (that one starts with "first remove the crank pulley bolt or you cant go one step further anyways" which makes sense at least since it seems to be THE PITA for this car)


My top question is actually the last part in the process, before I take the risk for all this, what is the risk that i'll blow up my engine by making a mistake? :p I mean is there some kind of quirk or problem to expect making sure that the timing belt is, well, properly timed, and not impacting on an interference engine? Something I do before I start it the first time like turn it over by hand to verify or what really?


Sl
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
If there is no documentation to show that the timing belt has been done in the past hundred thousand, then it should be done.
Certainly replace the water pump and tensioner while you're in there.
There is also a retainer for the cam seal that should be installed.
These engines can run for a very long time with no real problems, but a busted timing belt will kill them.
Another minor sore point with these are leaking spark plug tube seals.


Is the tensioner included in normal timing belt kits? Or the cam seal retainer? Whats that about spark plug tube seals? I'm trying to see if there's anything else to do at the same time whether for inspection, preventative maintenance, or whatever.


Originally Posted By: kschachn
FWIW, I've changed the timing belt on my 94 Accord twice now, the first time I used a Gates kit with the Chinese water pump. That started leaking about 35,000 miles later, getting the belt and tensioners wet with coolant. I bought an Aisin kit the

And IMHO always replace the water pump when doing the timing belt, the incremental cost

I also can't say enough good things about Honda Type 2 fluid either. The previous owner


I was planning on going with the Aisin kit, read about that on other forums. Was definately doing the water pump - it may be leaking anyways, something definately is.

Noted, i'll see about putting Honda Blue back into it instead of green.


Originally Posted By: chrome
What sort of tools do you have? These Accords are well known to have very tight crank pulley bolts, you will need a very decent impact gun, or a very long breaker bar to break those loose.


Was planning on buying or using large breaker bars and cheaters on it.


Are there any other good suggestions on things related to this, like flushing the radiator, heater core, and engine block? (i've heard the heater cores on these have a tendency to clog up too somewhere) Whether to look for things coming out and etc.

Any other things worth inspecting or being concerned about in the middle of this job? Harmonic balancer seal? 44:35 on the video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TMR9PG3fko mentions it but for instance I dont know what to look for/may miss things obvious to other mechanics if its not painfully degenerated.
 
By far far far the best way to deal with the crank bolt is a [censored] impact. By far. Especially on an automatic car. Yes you could potentially remove it with a breaker bar except for the bit of a problem that the engine will turn and on an automatic car there isn't an easy way to stop it.

Look at your pulley if it has a big (about 2 inches wide) hexagonal recess in it there exists a special tool to fit that and hold the pulley and engine still with another breaker bar.

Bumping the starter trick will NOT work on that car because the engine turns counterclockwise unlike most cars. The bolt would get tightened instead of loosened.

I don't mess with seals unless they are leaking. Slap on a belt, water pump, and tensioner and call it done.
 
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