Subframe rot - Cavalier - common?

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99Saturn

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I was at a local indy waiting to pick up a car when I noticed a buddies Cavalier in the lot. I asked them if everything was alright and the quick version of the story I got was that they were a mile or two from home and had a pretty loud squeal, decided to take it over to the shop, and their problem was diagnosed as subframe rot - with an estimate of ~14 hours labor to replace plus the subframe and any issues they run into if they do the job.
crazy2.gif


It's a late 90s model. I was wondering if anyone has experience here, if this a pretty common problem on cavaliers of that era and if that labor is in the ballpark?
 
Depends, but I've seen it happen in different J bodies....

Wife's current 2003 Cavalier has some rust on the subframe...but I have washed it as much as I could during the winter over the years...

A former co worker just sent her 2000 Cav coupe to the yard due to rot....
 
Very rust prone.My family had a 94 model,it had to have everything replaced (front rails,rear axle....) at 32k miles.My 88 K car has 123K and is cherry compared to that thing.Hollow chassis members are not a good idea.They will rust from the inside out.
 
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Hollow chassis members are not a good idea.


Unfortunately, that's the only way to build a car...
 
I am not sure the car companies care about rust beyond 10 or 15 years. Its not s selling point the new car buyer is concerned about or will pay for. Very few people buy a new car and keep it until its end-of-life.

So if your the 3rd owner at 15 years and the vehicle has a major rust problem then they would rather see it in the boneyard than build the cars so they would be rust free to 20 years.
 
I think subframe rot on economy cars over 17 years old is a common problem, to all makes and models.

Especially if it has seen rust belt use.

Sorry to steal the thread, but can anyone recommend a car that rots out in the Northeast around the 17 year mark?

I hear Cavaliers can make it...
 
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Hollow chassis members are not a good idea.


Unfortunately, that's the only way to build a car...


Not true. U-channel chassis exist. Can't think of any current models, though.
 
I grew up in Northern WV where there is a lot of salt. I'm so glad I live in the South now, where you can pretty much keep a car indefinitely. I have a 2002 Cav w/o rust. The dash is cracked from the summer heat, though. We do have different problems down here. I found a near perfect dash for my 1974 Chevy C-10 (that had a decent body because it lived in the South) in WV.
 
The unibody arch over the rear axle on the driver's side seems to go out on cavaliers before the subframe. Though I suppose enough rear body would hold together to keep driving if you don't get nicked by failing state inspection. The exhaust passes by this arch which can make for some nice warm, humid salty air as opposed to cold, dry, salty dust.
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Cavaliers don't have a full perimiter subframe; it's a k-frame that goes forward with two "antlers" that end at the control arms. Seems like a "twiggy" design that can't be too durable.

I had a saturn s-series make it 19 years, though I slapped a junkyard subframe in it. Now, suddenly, they're all forming holes where the driver's rear trailing arm meets up.
 
I think the car did well to go 16 years in the Northeast before rusting out. Flushing the salt from the underbody is very important in winter. It's probably more a result of upkeep (or lack thereof) by the previous owners. I had an '85 Sunbird for 14 years (5 in NJ, 9 in IN) that was still solid when I traded it in.
 
Originally Posted By: Ducked
Originally Posted By: Ethan1
Originally Posted By: NHGUY
Hollow chassis members are not a good idea.


Unfortunately, that's the only way to build a car...


Not true. U-channel chassis exist. Can't think of any current models, though.


You can make an extremely weak frame in a u-channel. You can't make a u-channel unibody. A Cavalier doesn't have a frame, it's a unibody car.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken
I think subframe rot on economy cars over 17 years old is a common problem, to all makes and models.

Especially if it has seen rust belt use.

Sorry to steal the thread, but can anyone recommend a car that rots out in the Northeast around the 17 year mark?

I hear Cavaliers can make it...


My parents mostly trouble free 99 Forester/190k is holding out fine with rot. Body still look decent above and below when on lift.
 
I lucked out with a bad subframe once. Wasn't a cav, or other j body, but my y2k Hyundai sonata. Summer of 2009, there was a recall for excessive subframe rust for cars in the "saltbelt", took my car in for broken CV boots that were JUST covered under warranty (10yr/100k mi, rolled into the shop @ 99,975) they replace the boots, and send me on my way. Couple days later I get a call that my parts were in, and to schedule install... I didn't order any parts... Apparently my subframe was almost rotten through. So even though the recall hadn't fully come down, they had gone ahead and ordered the part, and I got one of the first replacement subframes. Got the car back in 24 hrs, with the truest alignment it had ever had.
 
Yup. My daughters 03 went [censored] in the rockers first. Now rotten in one spot on each side of the sub frame rails right along side of the rear of rear tires. It can be migged if you want to spend the time though as it's easy access. The rest of the frame held up fine being under coated.
 
Originally Posted By: Falken

Sorry to steal the thread, but can anyone recommend a car that rots out in the Northeast around the 17 year mark?


For all the grief they get for being "unreliable", 2000s era VWs seem to hold up very well to rust in the north east. My 99 is officially 16 years old this year, with very little body rust, and no sub-frame rust whatsoever.

Cavaliers, like Focuses are pretty weak, in my opinion.
 
Originally Posted By: cat843
I am not sure the car companies care about rust beyond 10 or 15 years. Its not s selling point the new car buyer is concerned about or will pay for. Very few people buy a new car and keep it until its end-of-life.


I am sure... sure they don't care. Recently Toyota was made to care.
 
Guys - it's a 90's car in NY. The car is old enough to have brought a newborn home from the hospital that would now be old enough to drive it.
 
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