Infiniti Red Bull Drops Renault

[Garak]

Check here. I don't know how I missed this for so long. I tend to read the F1 official site, which means I hear only what Bernie really wants me to hear.

Mercedes told Red Bull to disabuse themselves of the notion of running Mercedes engines next year. So, it's either Ferrari, Honda, or there is big trouble brewing.

 

[bdcardinal]

The Renault turbo V6 just hasn't had the power that Mercedes and now Ferrari have had. I think even the Renault V8 engines were down on power, but the Red Bull chassis and aero made up for it.

If Honda can get their ERS working, apparently their engine is good, that would be a good combo for RBR.

 

[Bottom_Feeder]

Yes, it would be interesting to see Red Bull running Honda engines next year but that's not going to happen. Back to Ferrari they'll go it seems. They would also lose the Infiniti sponsorship along with the Renault engines since they are technical partners on some level.

I'm thinking Renault will probably just leave instead of taking over Lotus. They sold out to what is now Lotus a few years ago for a reason.

 

[Garak]

And I think it would definitely help Honda to have an extra customer or two on board. It can't hurt to have feedback and help from another team.

 

[A_Harman]

I figured Renault was through with RBR when they announced the deal to buy Lotus. But according to the story, that deal isn't definite yet.

 

[Garak]

No, certainly not in stone, that's probably why nothing's been said on the actual F1 site. I guess we'll find out soon enough.

 

[wemay]

This has been brewing for two years. Glad to see them part ways after such a tumultuous 18 months. I'm not sure i would trust the Honda engines just yet. Their season has been MUCH worse than expected.

 

[BikeWhisperer]

Everything points to RBR running a Ferrari engine next year including Mercedes talking to Manor (who currently run leftover 2014 Ferrari Engines) about engines next year. All conjecture right now but it wouldn't surprise me if things shake out like this;

Ferrari will be in Ferrari, Sauber, RBR, and Haas

Mercedes will be in Mercedes, Williams, Force India, and Manor (possibly 2015 engines on closeout?)

Renault will be in Lotus (or whatever it will be called) and Toro Rosso

Honda will be in only McLaren next year but I'm guessing for 2017 that will change.

The FIA had said engines suppliers can only run in three teams but gave special consideration to Mercedes who have been in four teams the last couple years. Surely they will give Ferrari the same deal.

 

[Garak]

Yep, I read about Manor likely going to Mercedes. I hope they get a good deal, because a good power unit isn't their biggest concern right now.

And I wish Honda had let McLaren do the recovery system themselves, as was already pointed out a couple times on the board, but I digress.

 

[weasley]

Originally Posted By: Bottom_Feeder
They would also lose the Infiniti sponsorship along with the Renault engines since they are technical partners on some level.


Infiniti is to Nissan what Lexus is to Toyota. And since Nissan and Renault have a global alliance, this would explain the situation.

Maybe if they get season-old Mercedes engines they can run Smart sponsorship?

 

[BikeWhisperer]

Well it looked like VW was going to purchase Red Bull and use Ferrari engines until they developed their own for 2018 under the Audi name. However, with this "little" snafu they find themselves in I think it is safe to say the VW deal is off.

This leaves Red Bull in a (mostly self induced) precarious condition. They have split with Renault, Mercedes won't supply them engines, and Ferrari probably will not supply their newest engines to a team that could very likely out perform the factory team. So unlike earlier threats, there is a very real possibility that Red Bull just bails on F1. Lost in all this discussion is Toro Rosso, which is also losing Renault engines. So they are also very likely to be off the grid. And if Renault chooses not to buy the Lotus team back and just bail on F1 as well, there is a possibility of a 16 car grid next year...assuming Haas F1 still joins.

All speculation of course, but things could get really bad.

 

[Garak]

Yes, I was reading today something from an interview with Helmut Marko, about getting engines from VW/Audi, since they cooperate in other racing series. Of course, he noted they don't have something sitting around ready to go, and they're not working on something, or we likely would have heard. And now, VW/Audi has other fish to fry.

It's hard to second guess what goes on behind the scenes, but what bugs me was the lack of patience. Sir Frank doesn't fly off the handle and want to run home the second Williams isn't as competitive as it once was. Neither does Ron Dennis. When you're in Formula 1, you have to take the good with the bad. Red Bull's attitude is that they throw enough money at it, so they should be automatically up front.

While that's probably true in a lot of ways, there will always be hiccups along the path. So, if Ferrari doesn't supply them, do they return on bended knee to Renault or do they get relegated to Honda or do they leave?

 

[DeepFriar]

Good article on the subject in the Australian press today lays out the same series of questions you pose and gives a few more details. Scary times indeed.

http://www.theroar.com.au/2015/09/24/red-bull-quit-threat-is-holding-formula-one-hostage/

 

[Garak]

Mercedes being unwilling to supply the engines doesn't sit well with me, either. I understand their point, but if they're going to be an engine supplier, they should be supplying engines to those who can pay. They don't mind supplying them to teams who they deem to be less of a risk, but don't want to sell to Red Bull? How many teams must an engine supplier actual supply, should teams be actually able to pay? I know they can supply only one if the demand isn't there (i.e. Honda), but I suppose I'd have to go through the rulebook and see what the deal is if other teams did demand engines.

We may need more engine suppliers, but I can see them finding the rest of the power unit equation daunting. Let companies like McLaren and Williams handle the latter parts, if need be. I suppose that can't be easy, though, either, with necessary software integration.

 

[BikeWhisperer]

Ferrari now says it will supply Toro Rosso but not Red Bull, not even with 2015 spec engines.

http://planetf1.com/news/ferrari-refuse-to-supply-red-bull/

Frankly Red Bull did this to themselves, which is why there is no sympathy for them from the rest of the teams.

 

[billt460]

This could easily be the coup de grace that finishes them off. I would not be at all surprised to see Red Bull vanish into the night after selling off their assets.

 

[Garak]

I guess we shall see. During FP2, that was one of the theories. However, other things are apparently on the table. Bernie claims to have solved the problem, whatever that might mean.

 

[DeepFriar]

Red Bull engine problem "sorted" says Bernie. Typical Bernie comment. As you say, all we can do is watch.

 

[DeepFriar]

Sorry, meant to include following link :

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2015/oc...sian-grand-prix

 

[Garak]

Bernie again claims that the problem is fixed.