LED Light Continually Turning Yellow

[Stainless1020]

Thank you ahead of time to whoever takes the time to read and potentially help me out.

On my 2003 Ford Escape, I swapped out the license plate bulbs for LED lights. Originally I went with the Pilot brand purchased at AutoZone. I noticed a few weeks after installing the lights that the left LED turned yellow and was burning the plastic housing that it sits inside. I figured the LED was just bad from the factory since the right one was still working fine and looked great.

I then purchased higher quality LEDs and installed those a week or so ago. Last night I checked the lights and sure enough the left one had turned yellow again and was burning the plastic housing.

Do you guys think this is a socket issue? I thought maybe the vehicle was not made to use LEDs, but the fact that the right LED seems to stay perfect makes me think it might just be a bad socket. I am planning on either wiring in a new socket or just buying conventional bulbs. Let me know what you think, Thank you!

 

[901Memphis]

For all outside lights you want to stick with oem style halogen bulbs.


Most all of the led bulbs you see for sale are cheap toys.

This is one of the few websites I am aware of that offers high quality leds. They are UK based so ordering multi items will offset the shipping cost.

http://www.jmgoods.co.uk/

 

[earlyre]

do the cheapest option first. which ever one that is

when it comes to exterior LED's. I'm of the opinion that as long as it's not meant to help you see down the road,(ie: High/Low beam headlamps, foglights, etc) go ahead and install LED's when replacing.

all those other lights on the outside of your car are there to make others see you. LED's are very good for this type of light.
there are of course some difficulties, ie: Turn signals either NOT flashing, or Hyper flashing. both of which can be easily solved with either a replacement LED flasher if you are lucky, or splicing load resistors on the leads to the bulbs them selves.

 

[HTSS_TR]

If I'm updating my light bulbs to LED, the last one I would do is license plate. The others such as turn signals, brake, parking and reverse ... are okay to upgrade to LED for quicker illuminate and brighter.

 

[Stainless1020]

Thanks everyone. It seems that there is no clear answer as to whether its the use of the LED or just a bad socket that is causing this issue.

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: earlyre
do the cheapest option first. which ever one that is

when it comes to exterior LED's. I'm of the opinion that as long as it's not meant to help you see down the road,(ie: High/Low beam headlamps, foglights, etc) go ahead and install LED's when replacing.

all those other lights on the outside of your car are there to make others see you. LED's are very good for this type of light.
there are of course some difficulties, ie: Turn signals either NOT flashing, or Hyper flashing. both of which can be easily solved with either a replacement LED flasher if you are lucky, or splicing load resistors on the leads to the bulbs them selves.


I do not agree with this, all exterior bulbs should meet dot requirements. There are photometric requirements for all exterior bulbs and leds do not work well with reflectors designed for halogen.

Placing leds in exterior bulbs will result in people not being able to see you as well.

Just because it's bright when you look into it doesn't mean it's going to be seen at the required angles behind or beside the vehicle.

Just because you can buy it online doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

Manufacturers are moving towards led lighting but the entire housings have to be designed to work properly with it. This is an extensive process that often requires multi changes in the engineering process, not something you can just do in your garage by swapping a bulb.

 

[Stainless1020]

Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

I do not agree with this, all exterior bulbs should meet dot requirements. There are photometric requirements for all exterior bulbs and leds do not work well with reflectors designed for halogen.

Placing leds in exterior bulbs will result in people not being able to see you as well.

Just because it's bright when you look into it doesn't mean it's going to be seen at the required angles behind or beside the vehicle.

Just because you can buy it online doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

Manufacturers are moving towards led lighting but the entire housings have to be designed to work properly with it. This is an extensive process that often requires multi changes in the engineering process, not something you can just do in your garage by swapping a bulb.


If you don't mind me asking, would you say then that the socket simply can't properly handle the LED, regardless of the opposite side seeming to stay perfectly fine?

 

[NHGUY]

SuperbrightLEDs has been around for years,selling bulbs that shouldn't be used in cars...I'm no fan of LED dome light bulbs,even less of a fan of LED taillights.I think they have about another 5 years of development of non-Chinese-level-cheapness to equal the performance of standard halogen/incandescent auto bulbs in a drop in replacement.In the meanwhile buy a new Charger with "racetrack" LED taillights...just hope you never have to pay to replace them....

 

[901Memphis]

Originally Posted By: Stainless1020
Originally Posted By: 901Memphis

I do not agree with this, all exterior bulbs should meet dot requirements. There are photometric requirements for all exterior bulbs and leds do not work well with reflectors designed for halogen.

Placing leds in exterior bulbs will result in people not being able to see you as well.

Just because it's bright when you look into it doesn't mean it's going to be seen at the required angles behind or beside the vehicle.

Just because you can buy it online doesn't mean it's safe or legal.

Manufacturers are moving towards led lighting but the entire housings have to be designed to work properly with it. This is an extensive process that often requires multi changes in the engineering process, not something you can just do in your garage by swapping a bulb.


If you don't mind me asking, would you say then that the socket simply can't properly handle the LED, regardless of the opposite side seeming to stay perfectly fine?


Probably just a quality issue with the led. It could be a corrosion issue or something else.

See here for some specs if anyone is interested.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/DOT/TP-108-13.pdf

 

[Stainless1020]

Something else to add to this story. Originally, I replaced the halogen license plate bulbs to begin with because the left bulb had burned out. I wonder if its a coincidence that a halogen bulb burned out in that socket, and now two separate brands of LED lights, with the last set being a known higher quality set. I am leaning towards this being a bad socket at the moment, or at least starting with that fix since it is only a few bucks.

 

[NateDN10]

Usually an led changing color (and, more obviously, burning a hole through something) is a sign of too high voltage. But I'd expect both sockets to be fed by the same source, so I'm at a loss. But I'd look at the socket and surrounding wiring.

 

[wrcsixeight]

Remember back when LED bulbs were supposed to run cooler? Most people still think this.

I have 194 and 168 incan bulbs, and their LED replacements (for interior use), and in all cases the LEDs run way hotter. Way brighter, but way hotter. The LEDs which run cool, are dim.

Next time you are stopped at a redlight, study the taillights of the car in front of you.

Many/most modern vehicles taillight reflectors have a dimpled surface, and each dimple has a perfect reflection of the incandescent filament. If one were to walk all around the car or even climb a ladder behind it, or get on the ground under it, one would still be able to see this reflection of the filament from every angle, just as brightly as from directly behind.

Dropping A LED into such a reflector is not going to work properly, though phillips has some bulbs which will use the dimples correctly. The Majority of radially firing bulbs will not properly use the reflector dimples, and from certain angles will become invisible, less visible, or perhaps too bright.

Brighter is not necessarily better, especially when the major and minor filaments on combination bulbs do not have enough difference in intensity. I see this all the time around here, I drive behind someone who I think is just a fool accelerating with their foot on the brake, but then I see that the lights only get about 15% brighter when they step on the brake or put on their turn signal, instead of 100% brighter.

I am not actually sure the percentage of brightness increase brakelights are supposed to have over running lights, but most LEDs fail miserably in this regard.

Putting LED bulbs into incandescent housings is unwise 95% of the time, any incandescent housing for signal lighting, and your eyes are not calibrated to judge efficacy of your 'upgrade'.

Older vehicles that use simple parabolic reflectors but have taillight lenses with reflective optics actually stand a better chance of performing properly with an LED light source compared to modern vehicles with dimpled reflectors.

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2015/03/piston-slap-traversing-world-led-retrofit-bulbs/

LEDs also dim when they get hot, so the person who swaps in a LED bulb and declares it brighter and safer and and more stylish, could find that the intensity drops in half after holding their foot on the brake for 2 minutes at a traffic light, if they ever bothered to look again.

As far as the license plate LED burning out, it is unlikely the voltage all the way at the taillight is too high for the bulb. It is likely the bulb is overheating as they are driven hard and get hot in order to make the 'brightest bulb in its class' claims.

But it can't hurt to check the connector and its wiring for excessive heating.

Why do people want super bright license plate lamps anyway?

I blacked out my housing so that it is just bright enough to see the plate, and not light up my whole bumper and ground under the car.

There are a reason taillights are red. I don't want the already distracted smartphone texter behind me to have their vision compromised by a glowing white/blue license plate. It might make it look too much like their smartphone

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Remember back when LED bulbs were supposed to run cooler? Most people still think this.

I have 194 and 168 incan bulbs, and their LED replacements (for interior use), and in all cases the LEDs run way hotter. Way brighter, but way hotter. The LEDs which run cool, are dim.


I find that somewhat dubious. Maybe the point source of heat, eg a heat sink, is hotter, but overall, for a given number of lumens, the amount of power dissipated is lower, and thus must be cooler.

 

[ffhdriver]

I changed my #921 reverse bulbs to LEDs. They have 12 radial and 3 end mounted LEDs. The color is 5000K and lumens are advertised as 500. I got them from VLEDS. The OEM bulb was about 263 lumens. The new bulbs give much more visibility "on the ground"and at a distance as seen in my reverse camera. The OEM bulbs would get the lens very hot in just a couple of minutes, but didn't melt the lens. The lens and bulb socket never change temperature with the LEDs. The LED bulb is about 1/8"longer than the OEM bulb, but neither is very close to the lens. Visibility from all angles appears to be identical to the OEM bulb. I like the change. I too don't understand the appeal of extra bright license plate lights. I'm very glad that my brake, tail and rear side marker lights are OEM LED.

 

[Vikas]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Remember back when LED bulbs were supposed to run cooler? Most people still think this.

I have 194 and 168 incan bulbs, and their LED replacements (for interior use), and in all cases the LEDs run way hotter. Way brighter, but way hotter. The LEDs which run cool, are dim.


I find that somewhat dubious. Maybe the point source of heat, eg a heat sink, is hotter, but overall, for a given number of lumens, the amount of power dissipated is lower, and thus must be cooler.
The glass itself may be hotter on halogen but the base and the heat-sink is way too hot on an LED. It terms of controlling waste heat, LED still has ways to go.

 

[Stainless1020]

Thank you everyone for the input.

I am going to start attempting to fix this issue in the next few days. If the socket and wiring are in good shape, I will throw in conventional bulbs and see if they last. This is definitely an interesting issue, and one I do not believe is caused directly by the use of the LEDs since one side has been perfect while the other quickly deteriorates.

To those who keep talking about how they do not understand the appeal of "super bright license plate lights", I can tell you these are very modest and I have already gotten a few compliments about them on the Escape. I personally love the way the LEDs look on this vehicle for the license plate bulbs, but to each their own.

Will report back once I figure anything out. Appreciate the help.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Remember back when LED bulbs were supposed to run cooler? Most people still think this.

I have 194 and 168 incan bulbs, and their LED replacements (for interior use), and in all cases the LEDs run way hotter. Way brighter, but way hotter. The LEDs which run cool, are dim.


I find that somewhat dubious. Maybe the point source of heat, eg a heat sink, is hotter, but overall, for a given number of lumens, the amount of power dissipated is lower, and thus must be cooler.


I agree. I've replaced several conventional lamps with LED bulbs for the very reason of heat. Most of them made enough heat to melt the grips on my gloves shortly after turning off. I can put my bare fingers on any of my LED's without the same result.

 

[Vikas]

Why would you want your licence plate to have more light than legally required by the gummit? If I could, I would put dark glass over my plate!

 

[JHZR2]

M
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Originally Posted By: JHZR2
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Remember back when LED bulbs were supposed to run cooler? Most people still think this.

I have 194 and 168 incan bulbs, and their LED replacements (for interior use), and in all cases the LEDs run way hotter. Way brighter, but way hotter. The LEDs which run cool, are dim.


I find that somewhat dubious. Maybe the point source of heat, eg a heat sink, is hotter, but overall, for a given number of lumens, the amount of power dissipated is lower, and thus must be cooler.
The glass itself may be hotter on halogen but the base and the heat-sink is way too hot on an LED. It terms of controlling waste heat, LED still has ways to go.


Define "too hot".

I agree generally that this is a concern, but I am primarily interested in the physics of the situation - for the same light output, how can one device (LED) that draws far less energy, dissipate MORE heat than another that is far LESS efficient, and draws far more energy? Light output same, energy input different. The one that draws more energy must dissipate more energy (as heat, though possibly as other electromagnetic radiation which I guess is the wild card).

The condition of a point source or a disperse one is a consideration. A point source may be "hotter" than a dispersed one, at the point of measure. The total dissipation of energy can still be far less.

I know that LED light is much less of a spectrum, but the answer to my comments may well be found in how much energy is dispersed at what wavelengths outside of the visible spectrum.

 

[Vikas]

Have you seen a heat sink on a halogen bulb?

Quote:
(as heat, though possibly as other electromagnetic radiation which I guess is the wild card).
That might be the most plausible explanation.