MSDS' and CAS'

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Thanks for the explanation Mola
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So we are unlikely to see PAO referred to as a "paraffinic hydrocarbon" in an MSDS, even though it is one... a synthesised one, correct?

I note in your quote from the XOM Chemist that she specifically mentions PAO after paraffinic.
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Thanks for the explanation Mola
smile.gif


...So we are unlikely to see PAO referred to as a "paraffinic hydrocarbon" in an MSDS, even though it is one... a synthesised one, correct?...



That is correct.

Lubricant chemists and formulators will know, structurally speaking, that PAO is a 'synthesized' paraffinic hydrocarbon.

Since PAO is a 'synthesized' paraffinic hydrocarbon, it must carry a different CAS designation.
 
Originally Posted By: benjy
...looking at an Amsoil MSDS for 5-30 signature series showing CAS 64742-54-7 + 64742-65-0 base oils 30% 60%. is that the percentages of each base oil listed? thanks in advance, this is very interesting!!!


I am delighted to see people interested in this topic.

No, it would not be those percentages of each base oil type.

Reported percentages of base oils and other components of a formulated lubricant can be bogus since an MSDS only shows potential health and toxicology risks.

Again let me state, since people seem to keep missing this important point: an MSDS only shows potential health and toxicology risks, and DOES NOT purport to show the total formulation, nor does it show exact percentage of each component, since the formulations are proprietary.

If you looked more closely at the MSDS, in Section 11, you would also see this:

Quote:
Benzenamine, N-phenyl-, reaction products with 2,4,4-trimethylpentene


This is an ester.
 
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Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Benzenamine, N-phenyl-, reaction products with 2,4,4-trimethylpentene


This is an ester.


Great thread Phil!

Minor correction, the above is an anti-oxidant, aka Diisobutylene Diphenylamine or Irganox 5057, Naugalube 640, and Vanlube 961.

Tom
 
Originally Posted By: Tom NJ
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Quote:
Benzenamine, N-phenyl-, reaction products with 2,4,4-trimethylpentene


This is an ester.


Great thread Phil!

Minor correction, the above is an anti-oxidant, aka Diisobutylene Diphenylamine or Irganox 5057, Naugalube 640, and Vanlube 961.



You're right Tom, and thanks for the correction.

At first I thought is was an esterified anti-oxidant, but upon further investigation, it is a virgin phenylamine-based anti-oxidant.

CAS # 68411-46-1, a reaction product of benzeneamine,-N-phenyl- with 2,4,4-trimethylpentene and 2-methylpropene diphenylamine.
 
This almost makes me more interested in MSDS than PDS.
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Thank you all.
 
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Originally Posted By: benjy
looking to learn more to determine the oil group used. is PAO group IV described as a parraffinic hydrocarbons. looking at an Amsoil MSDS for 5-30 signature series showing CAS 64742-54-7 + 64742-65-0 base oils 30% 60%. is that the percentages of each base oil listed? thanks in advance, this is very interesting!!!


Just to let everyone know, this is an error. Not sure how it happened, but I reported it to Amsoil and yes. Wrong information and an update is in the works.
 
I was wondering about that and could believe the CAS #'s at maybe 1% for additive carrier, but 30% to 60% seemed far-fetched for the Signature Series.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: benjy
looking to learn more to determine the oil group used. is PAO group IV described as a parraffinic hydrocarbons. looking at an Amsoil MSDS for 5-30 signature series showing CAS 64742-54-7 + 64742-65-0 base oils 30% 60%. is that the percentages of each base oil listed? thanks in advance, this is very interesting!!!


Just to let everyone know, this is an error. Not sure how it happened, but I reported it to Amsoil and yes. Wrong information and an update is in the works.


Good to hear it was taken seriously
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Let us know when the updated sheet is posted. Thanks Pablo!
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there it is again "PROPRIETY" i am not looking to steal a formulation, just wanting to know what my $$$ are buying. Redline readily taunts Ester based oils as Amsoil did with PAO "in the past". i know the cheaper OE + XL oils they market are group III, whats the big deal saying so. Penrite from Australia says PAO or just states "synthetic" being group III base oils. been using Amsoil for many satisfied years, now it seems they want to pass off cheaper base oils at PAO prices, mainly the 10-40 + 20-50 premium "synthetic formulations rated MA i use in my motorcycles. very interested in understanding basically whats in a certain product!! thanks Mola + those teaching me
 
Proprietary means "company secret," or "Intellectual Property (IP)."

You are never going to know the formulation, so no need to rant.

The rest is marketing.
 
when a company don't answer simple formulation questions i am lead to believe they are hiding something, wanting you to pay more for less. may as well use pennzoil GTL platinum or mobil I extended performance.
 
Originally Posted By: benjy
when a company don't answer simple formulation questions i am lead to believe they are hiding something, wanting you to pay more for less. may as well use pennzoil GTL platinum or mobil I extended performance.


Sorry benjy, you can rant all day and night and you "ain't" going to get the formula because it is proprietary information, secret, Nyet.

Interestingly, I have yet to see Pennzoil OR Mobil divulge their formulations.
 
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If KFC doesn't communicate their 11 herbs and spices, they are being secret, but they are not trying to hide cost or quality. It really isn't different for oil formulators.
 
still reading + learning, thanks to all. i do not expect any manufacturer to tell all, what i am looking for is basically what are my xtra $$$$ giving me. as i said "in the past" Amsoil highly advertised the use of PAO base oils, thats before they sold the obviously group III OE + Extended service oils. seeing how good "so they say" group III oils are it "seems" amsoil "may" have reformulated many of their blends, maybe "all of them". since they are advertising much more like others, blowing your horn is cheaper than actually making a better product!!! its amazing how technical the formulation of lubricants are, very interesting for sure
 
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Hey Mola, as per this current thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3846579

What is the CAS # 64742-71-8 which is showing up in the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 (US MSDS) @ 30-40%, is this group III?

The description is:

Quote:
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL (PETROLEUM)


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That CAS describes an oil which was de-waxed using a catalytic process and which is simply a low viscosity, highly refined Group II.
 
Originally Posted By: MolaKule
Originally Posted By: OVERKILL
Hey Mola, as per this current thread:

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/3846579

What is the CAS # 64742-71-8 which is showing up in the new MSDS for M1 0w-40 (US MSDS) @ 30-40%, is this group III?

The description is:

Quote:
CATALYTIC DEWAXED LIGHT PARAFFINIC OIL (PETROLEUM)


21.gif



That CAS describes an oil which was de-waxed using a catalytic process and which is simply a low viscosity, highly refined Group II.


Thanks. And thanks for the further explanations in the other thread
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