Pennzoil Q&A - Thinner Viscosity Grades

[wwillson]

Quote:
Edit: The answers have been posted here: https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/lower-viscosity-grades-round-3/


Hello BITOG Members:

We have reached the third and final week of our Q&A sessions with the Shell Technical Team. As always, thank you all for participating with Mark Fenner last week. We hope your questions regarding valve train and timing chain wear have been thoroughly answered.

This week’s session is all about thinner viscosity grades with Pennzoil Technology Manager, Richard Dixon. Richard has been working on Shell Lubricants Technology for more than 19 years putting his degree and postdoctoral degree in Chemistry from the University of Edinburgh in Scotland to good use. As the Technology Manager at Shell, Richard has worked to develop both consumer and OEM factory fill engine oils for Shell Helix, Pennzoil and Quaker State.

This new thread will be open for submissions from 9:00 a.m. ET Saturday, September 5th until 5:00 p.m. ET on Tuesday, September 8th, at which time Richard and our full team of scientists and engineers will work together to provide answers to your questions to be posted on Friday, September 11th.

As with the previous Q&A’s, we have a few requests to make sure the session flows smoothly:

1. Please use this thread ONLY to submit questions.
2. Please understand that there will be some questions that we will not be able to answer. We cannot divulge any proprietary information and can only speak from our areas of expertise.
3. Please understand that we will not and cannot comment or speculate on the products of our competitors.

Thank you all for your understanding and enthusiasm, have a safe and enjoyable Labor Day Weekend!

-The Pennzoil Team

 

[aquariuscsm]

All this talk about thinner grades,some mfg's are spec'ing thicker grades if you race and/or track your car. The current Corvette is one. GM specs 15W50. And as everyone knows,Ford specs 5W50 for it's top of the line Mustang. Does Pennzoil plan on coming out with a 50 weight oil to complete with brands like Mobil 1?

 

[Volv04Life]

Why isnt Pennzoil Gold Synthetic blend available in 5w-20? Does Pennzoil plan to make a thinner resource conserving high mileage oil to compete with GTX HM and Maxlife? Maybe Synthetic Blend?

 

[wwillson]

I saved this from a previous Q&A, but don't remember who posted it, but wanted to make sure it was asked here.


Lower viscosity oils are generally for the purpose of improving fuel economy. Engine wear and durability do not seem to be an issue with modern 0w20 viscosity grades and the engines that call for them, but it is still a common question among enthusiasts. Balancing low viscosity/engine wear. My question is whether it would be beneficial to run a 5w30 for a bit of added protection if one pushes the engine a bit harder than expected, (in a vehicle that calls for a 20 grade)?

 

[Dan55]

Switching from a 5w20 to 0w20 how much would I save in a 20 mpg vehicle during a 10K OCI.

 

[The_Captain]

Does Pennzoil plan on using any type of titanium additives?

 

[JR]

Can we have pub long life diesel engine oil. I was a loyal LL user till it was drop out ofthe product line.



-harvey

 

[bigt61]

The new GM trucks spec 0W-20 oil. How does this thin grade hold up when towing maximum loads? Would thicker be better under these extreme conditions?

 

[DeepFriar]

1. We have seen that some lighter oils, comparing with others at the same stated weights, exhibit thicker or thinner viscosity than the norm for that weight. What are the sources of the this variability including, but not limited to, manufacturing tolerances?

2. This variability raises issues especially as we transition to lighter weights for if the variability is on the lighter side then sufficient protection will be compromised. How does Pennzoil intend to provide appropriate quality control to see that this does not happen?

3. Further, this variability, if on the heavier side, could be exploited to call a given oil a 20 wt. for instance but in actuality it might be a 25 or 30 wt or ?. How will the "bandwidth" of individual grades be policed especially if certification is reached by read-across or via modeled means?

4. What are the different antiwear additives, or combinations of same, that will be able to withstand the 200,000 psi squeeze-out you mention in the valve train that will not affect catalytic life span or other parameter like deposits? We have seen some transition to titanium. What others, or combinations of others, are possible? This is not meant to require a proprietary data answer.

5. Finally, do you foresee that, as the engine manufacturers resort to more complex and effective internal coating processes-surface preparations that your efforts at the lighter weights will indeed be made easier? Could you enlighten us on what processes may be in prospect and what impact it will have on your efforts?

Thank you for your interest and your efforts in addressing our questions.

 

[-SyN-]

I achieve no worse MPG with Pennzoil Ultra 5W-30 compared to the specified 5W-20 by Chrysler... So what exactly is the supposed benefit of the 5W-20 & 0W-20 viscosity oils?

 

[DeepFriar]

If I may add one more question to the mix -

With regard to Dexos1 and its upcoming variants, what has been GM's stated reasons for the Draconian fees associated with certification? The reason I ask is related to question number 5 in my earlier posting. For instance, is the GM story that the fees will support a greater level of engine R&D/manufacturing processes that would then make it somewhat easier for the oil vendors to pass the lower weights of Dexos1/2/n? Or, for instance, do the fees contribute to an "insurance fund", if you will, for possible/expected difficulties in the transition to lower weights (ahem)?

 

[Brybo86]

I have read that unlike conventional SAE 30, full synthetic monograde SAE 30 is not being produced much anymore because a synthetic 30, if tested, would meet 10w30 specs already...
so the manufacturer calls it a 10w30 and skips the SAE 30 naming.

As most new cars require a 20 weight oil I'm curious to know how a full synthetic SAE 20 might test?
Would it be a 10w20? 15w20, 5w20 or somewhere in between?

 

[Brybo86]

What are the differences between 0w20 and 5w20 when dealing with an extended drain oil?

I would think that the 0w20 would have more viscosity modifiers that may flash/burn/shear off turning the oil into something more like a 5w20 in say 5k miles.

Is that true or does a 0w20 typically hold it's specs in a well running engine over a 10K OCI?

 

[BigD1]

I am old. During my life time 30 and 40 weight motor oils have been the standard during most of it. During the last decade or so 20 weight motor oil has become a standard. From what I have read, Corporate Average Fuel Economy reporting has created the 20 weight standard because of less drag on internal engine components.

1. If you had a crystal ball, what is going to be the next standard oil weight?

 

[wwillson]

With GF-6B (SAE 16) oils having a minimum HSTS of 2.3 this will allow for a thinner protective film. I found this on Lubrizol's website, “While it is generally accepted that lower viscosity brings an improvement in fuel economy performance, it can have a negative impact on durability; the protective oil film is less robust, or under the most extreme loading conditions, non-existent". The word "non-existent" is pretty scary in terms of engine longevity. In order to protect engines using SAE 16 oil under high load/stress, also with the abrasive soot of GDI, what can you tell us about the additive packs in your new GF-6B oils? What new technology will be in the additive packs? Will GF-6B be able to meet the same wear requirements of GF-6A (i.e. 0w-20)? How will engines be designed differently to successfully use SAE 16 oil? Will there be any GF-6B oils that are backwards compatible to GF-5 or GF-6A? Will there be more than one Pennzoil viscosity grade with GF-6B other than 0w-16, such as 5w-16 or 10w-16? Will there be product differentiation in the GF-6B with products in the Ultra and Platinum lines?

Thanks for your time in advance!

 

[Jake54]

MPG wise, how much fuel can I really save by using your full synthetic over just shell conventional?

 

[zeng]

Richard,

On trend towards thinner viscosity grades :-

A )What's the limiting minimum HTHSv @150C (say),basing on today's technology, below which

engine components (other than valve train) wear shall begin to occur ? Is it 2.3 cP or lower ?

B )What are the various areas of research being done now , to lower the limiting values in (A) ,

so as to allow further reduction of oil viscosity in future ?

C )Currently what is the limiting minimum value of a journal bearing diametral oil clearance of

an automotive journal diameter of say, 48 mm or any other indicative diameter ? Is it 10 microns

or lower ?

D )Can value (C) above be reduce further to accommodate the use of even lower viscosity below

xW16 ? Say down to 8 microns or 6 microns?

Thanks in advance.

 

[mongo161]

I like to use thinner grades of full synthetic to thin out heavier grades of conventional or synthetic motor oils.

I'm currently running a blended mix of M1, 15w50 and M1 0w20, 3 quarts of each until the cold of winter arrives.

Once the cold of winter arrives, I'll be using 1 Gallon of Shell Rotella t6 and 2 quarts of Formula Shell full synthetic 5w30 until June.

I'll keep the same M1 extended performance filter on for 2 runs along with a filter magnet attached to the filter.

Would running Pennzoil Ultra or Pennzoil Platinum in a 5w30 be more beneficial year round rather than blended mixes?

 

[Shannow]

Hi,
I'm interested in making a custom blend for my vehicles.

Preferentially starting with Rotella T6 5W40, as it's in the family, but wanting something a bit closer to 5W30.

Rotella as it's in the family, and a strong oil, but if needed, Platinum Euro 5W40 could be considered as a starting point.

I would like to blend it down to a 5W30 using Platinum 5W20, so that I will end up with a 5W30 with a little more anti-wear additive than the typical 5W30.

Are there any problems doing this, and will the results be as I expect them to be ?

 

[wwillson]

Thank you for your questions. We will post the answers ASAP.

edit: added link to answers in the first post of this thread.

Wayne