9 +years on synthetic oil, Valve train inspection

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Originally Posted By: Miller88
Yes. There are API SN dino oils here. They are very well regarded too.

I wonder if that could contribute to the difference too? The conventional (dino) oils you have are an older API spec?

Indeed, the stock of low end dinos are SL or SJ here. The higher end ones, called semi synthetics are SM or SN.
 
What have your oil drain intervals been like, and what filter are you using?

Malaysia, just like the Middle East, has high sulfur gas and quite the range of poor quality 20W-50 lubricants. I'd say synthetic was a fine choice.
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What oil grade would be better/best to use with high sulfur gas ?

Is it b/c of high sulfur gas, so the 20w-50 oil is necessary ?
 
I just swapped out this oil at 6300kms. Wasn't happy with the noise at idle. I will be sending a sample out to blackstone this coming Monday.
 
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Originally Posted By: Merkava_4
Just needs a little light scrubbing on the underneath side of the valve cover. Scotch-Brite and Purple Power.

Don't get Scotch-Brite anywhere near an engine.

From a GM Engineer who used to comment here: "NEVER, EVER, EVER USE SCOTCHBRITE ON AN ENGINE. At least not one you want to run again for a long time.

Scotchbrite seems so benign but it is death to engines. Scotchbrite pads are nylon fibers with 40 micron particles of aluminum oxide in them. Scotchbrite dust leaves behind all those 40 micron particles hidden everywhere. Aluminum oxide is an extremely aggressive abrasive. It imbeds in the bearings and eats the crank....and other things.

Scotchbrite is the bane of the aftermarket re-man engine industry. There are lots of "new" re-mans ruined by cleaning up the old parts with scotchbrite pads and then installing them. Eats up the engine immediately. That is why many engines fail the main and rod bearings after a head job or other work...scotchbrite. People think it is because of coolant getting into the oil ruining the bearings or something when it was really the scotchbrite the mechanic used to clean up the parts... especially a Northstar engine where the block deck surface cleaning funnels the scotchbrite dust down the oil drain back passages.

If you cleaned up parts with scotchbrite you now have a HUGE cleanup job ahead of you cleaning up after the scotchbrite. You must make positively sure that none of the dust remains anywhere on any parts or got into the oil cavity. Hopefully the valley of the engine was covered if you used scotchbrite on the deck surface as if it drifted into the valley or into the pan your engine is toast.

I am very very serious about this. Scotchbrite has a very bad reputation in the industry as it seems like such an ideal cleanup method, seems so benign, yet can cause such extreme damage. Most mechanics in the know stay miles away from scotchbrite as it is harder to clean up after it than any labor it saves.

If you doubt this at all call JASPER or any of the main engine re-man companies and ask them if it is OK to use scotchbrite to clean up the manifold you are going to put on your Jasper re-man....

ANYWAY is better than scotchbrite pads or polishing discs. I have seen a LOT of engines ruined this way with aluminum oxide contamination from scotchbrite pads. Many field return cores of brand new re-man engines that were returned to the re-man center had bearings fail due to the mechanic cleaning up the old intake for installation onto the re-man long block with scotchbrite and then not cleaning up sufficiently.

I like a razor blade scraper and some sort of chemical gasket remover to soften the old gaskets. Just do NOT let scotchbrite get anywhere near the engine or use scotchbrite in the area so that the dust can settle in the engine unknowingly.

Honestly, it depends on when you catch the failure as to what the failure looks like. When the aluminum oxide particles get into the engine they are too large for the bearing clearance and imbed into the soft bearing surface due to the pressure of the crank journal. The bearing will look perfect, absolutely perfect...and the engine will actually run fine for quite a while. Right up to the point that, due to heat/load/RPM the oil film is pressed so thin that the peaks of the aluminum oxide peek thru the oil film and touch the crank....and start machining it down. In 20 minutes the crank journal will feel like a phonograph record surface yet...THE BEARING WILL STILL LOOK PERFECT. You would have to look at the bearing shell under an SEM (scanning electron microscope) to see the abrasive particles imbedded into the bearing. Run the engine harder and at more RPM/heat/load and the grooved up bearing looses so much load capacity that it starts to eat into the bearing shell surface due to metal-to-metal contact due to the oil film collapsing because the surface area of the grooved surface has been destroyed. THEN the bearing shell looks grooved up...but this is right before it seizes up/spins a bearing and puts parts thru the side of the block.

Trust me, I have seen this exact failure mode many many times as scotchbrite is a favorite "tool" of the unknowing. Often, when a reman or repair fails the mechanic blames the reman or the "glycol in the oil" or whatever never knowing that it was the scotchbrite pad he used to clean up the manifold surfaces before reassembling."
 
Originally Posted By: KrisZ
Originally Posted By: alcyon
...I was talking to the mechanic about the inside of the valve cover being totally covered in deposits and I said it was because of the mineral oil used.


Nope. You should understand that synthetic oils can leave deposits as well and should learn how deposits are formed in the first place before criticizing others for their lack of oil knowledge.


Synthetics almost always deposit less than dino. Proof is in the fact that synthetics are the only oils that can pass the toughest specs (Porsche A40, MB 229, HTO-06, 4718M, LL-01, etc.) which require less deposits than say a basic SN dino oil would.
 
Thanks are in order: alcyon, you are awesome, great pics, clean engine and interesting. bigt61, a great read for anybody on bitog who thinks about the physics of oil films and solids.
 
Honestly, one of the best threads I have seen here in a long time.

Great job with this engine!

Thank you very much for taking the time to share this with us!
 
It is interesting for me to see that car. In the USA, Mitsubishi cars from the 1980s became virtually extinct several years ago. I think we got the Cordia, Tredia, Colt, Mighty Max, Starion, and Vista. Chrysler often would put their name on a Mitsubishi, and that created some confusion. Other times, they would use a Mitsubishi engine in some other car. Mitsubishi also shared things with Hyundai, causing even more confusion.
 
Originally Posted By: artificialist
It is interesting for me to see that car. In the USA, Mitsubishi cars from the 1980s became virtually extinct several years ago. I think we got the Cordia, Tredia, Colt, Mighty Max, Starion, and Vista. Chrysler often would put their name on a Mitsubishi, and that created some confusion. Other times, they would use a Mitsubishi engine in some other car. Mitsubishi also shared things with Hyundai, causing even more confusion.

i think in the us and canada this particular fwd model was called the colt vista. I guess they were just standard [censored] econobox suited for its time. In my country cars are very very expensive, hence they are quite a number of people that hang on to them for a lifetime. It helps that spares are cheap and readily available, either new or used.
 
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
a 40 weight multigrade minimum according to the manual.



Hmm ....... IIRC this Mitsubishi 4G13 engine specifies xW-30 API SG.
 
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Originally Posted By: alcyon

I am afraid to use 5W-30, because over time it would shear down to a 25 or 20, and besides the lowest recommended for this car was a XX-40. But anyway if I could get Pennzoil Ultra here then I would definitely give 5W-30 a go. heard a lot of good things about PU, and its shear film strength.
 
Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
a 40 weight multigrade minimum according to the manual.



Hmm ....... IIRC this Mitsubishi 4G13 engine specifies xW-30 API SG.


hey..nice to see some one from the same country over here instead of low yat forums. Here is the oil chart. Not sure what is sW-40 though..must be a typo. Is the S actually 5 ? As you can see a 10w30 is only good up to 36 c? So what happens in worst case malaysian jams when the car isnt moving and there is no airflow to the radiator..only depending on the electric fan to dissipate the heat.
 
Originally Posted By: alcyon
Originally Posted By: zeng
Originally Posted By: Jetronic
a 40 weight multigrade minimum according to the manual.



Hmm ....... IIRC this Mitsubishi 4G13 engine specifies xW-30 API SG.


hey..nice to see some one from the same country over here instead of low yat forums. Here is the oil chart. Not sure what is sW-40 though..must be a typo. Is the S actually 5 ? As you can see a 10w30 is only good up to 36 c? So what happens in worst case malaysian jams when the car isnt moving and there is no airflow to the radiator..only depending on the electric fan to dissipate the heat.




Thanks for sharing.

My pdf file shows Mitsubishi 4G13 engines requires API SG (API intro in 1989) :

a) 10W-30 for ambients between -30C to 40C (instead of 36C in your file)

b) 10W-40 or 10W-50 for ambients between -30C to 50C;

c) 15W-40 or 15W-50 for ambients between -15C to 50C; and

d) 20W-40 or 20W-50 for ambients between -10C to 50C.

You have a valid basis in taking the position as per (d) above, by using 20W-50 , but you

probably pour in unsuitable SF rating , that was then commonly available in Malaysia till middle

or late 1990's (if I guess it correctly) when your engine requires SG rating and above.

Shell Helix 3 20W-50 SL is only newly available in 2015 , though API intro SL way back in 2001;

and until 2013, Helix 3 20W-50 SJ/SG (API intro in 1997/1989) was available in Malaysia.

However 10W-30 was used by factory warranty service in my case , and in early 1990's the same

10W-30 grade was recommended in most other contemporary Japanese engines from Toyota's and

Honda's etc.

Having said this, 15W-40 has been my choice......... for frequent 3000 -4500 rpm highway

driving ........... and for engine wear protection .

Btw 10W-30 and 15W-40 SG ratings were readily available in early 1990's , unlike grade 20W-50

SG.

http://www.shell.com.my/products-service...ineral/hx3.html
 
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