Honda 2.4L Valve Adjustment - need help!

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Originally Posted By: Voltmaster


Unless there is a performance problem there is no need. Its a honda you put gas in it and drive it.


Originally Posted By: mclasser


you should just leave the valves alone, especially on Hondas. More harm than good can be done when fiddling with them.



That's awesome. I love that. Burned exhaust valves on B20s (CRV) and B18s (Integras) have put alot of money in my pocket over the years.
thumbsup2.gif


K24s tend to go tight and lose performance/throw misfire codes regularly too.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic

What other methods would you recommend?


Set the crank to TDC. Adjust #1. Rotate cam 90 degrees, adjust #3. Another 90 degrees then #4. Finally an additional 90 degrees then set #2. There are marks on the cam sprockets that can guide you.

Do it stone cold. I let them sit over night and do not have problems.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I used the factory approved method. The lobes were pointing at about 9-10?

That's the difficult method. A tiny bit off and the cams are sitting on their ramps.

Originally Posted By: The Critic
What other methods would you recommend?

Turn crank by hand until the four lobes you want to adjust are pointing straight up to the sky. Now adjust those. Repeat until another four are pointing straight up, etc. until all are done. I guarantee that you'll find all those "tight" exhaust valves will now be found to be way too loose.

Another note: Be extremely careful HOW you insert those feeler gauges! If they're even slightly twisted or angled when you try to insert them, they will give a false reading. For example, if .012 "goes" with resistance but .013 ALSO "goes", then the gauges are being held on the wrong angle. If .012 "goes" with resistance and it's being held at the correct angle, then .013 will NOT go.
 
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I used the factory approved method. The lobes were pointing at about 9-10?

That's the difficult method. A tiny bit off and the cams are sitting on their ramps.

Originally Posted By: The Critic
What other methods would you recommend?

Turn crank by hand until the four lobes you want to adjust are pointing straight up to the sky. Now adjust those. Repeat until another four are pointing straight up, etc. until all are done. I guarantee that you'll find all those "tight" exhaust valves will now be found to be way too loose.

Another note: Be extremely careful HOW you insert those feeler gauges! If they're even slightly twisted or angled when you try to insert them, they will give a false reading. For example, if .012 "goes" with resistance but .013 ALSO "goes", then the gauges are being held on the wrong angle. If .012 "goes" with resistance and it's being held at the correct angle, then .013 will NOT go.


All of my exhaust valves tighten up, too. Nothing unique about this. Two
different Civics I've owned did it. The pain in my current Civic are the valves on the back. Weird angle (bent my feeler gauges) and sore back from leaning over the car. 1.) check low spec, middle spec, high spec. Small should slide easily. Middle resist. Thick very difficult. 2.) if not right loosen nut, adjust, check with three feelers again, tighten nut, check with three again, move on to next valve. My engine also gets noisier right after an adjustment but after about 30k gets more quiet. At about 60k no noise so I know it's time to adjust again. My experience has always been tight exhaust. If you screw it up, loose gives you a chance. Tight...burn baby burn.
 
Originally Posted By: Yup
All of my exhaust valves tighten up, too. Nothing unique about this. Two
different Civics I've owned did it.

That should not be. Aside from some '99-'01 CR-Vs which had defective valve-seats, and 596 '09 Civics with an assembly defect, Honda does not build engines which act that way.

Year-over-year, the most change you should see is one, maybe two, valves that go out-of-spec by a thou or so. Not more than that.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I used the factory approved method. The lobes were pointing at about 9-10?

That's the difficult method. A tiny bit off and the cams are sitting on their ramps.

Originally Posted By: The Critic
What other methods would you recommend?

Turn crank by hand until the four lobes you want to adjust are pointing straight up to the sky. Now adjust those. Repeat until another four are pointing straight up, etc. until all are done. I guarantee that you'll find all those "tight" exhaust valves will now be found to be way too loose.

Another note: Be extremely careful HOW you insert those feeler gauges! If they're even slightly twisted or angled when you try to insert them, they will give a false reading. For example, if .012 "goes" with resistance but .013 ALSO "goes", then the gauges are being held on the wrong angle. If .012 "goes" with resistance and it's being held at the correct angle, then .013 will NOT go.


Okay, I re-did the adjustment.

Made it a "tight" 0.009" on the intake and a "tight" 0.012" on the exhaust. I made sure that the next size up (0.010 and 0.013, respectively) did not fit in.

The engine sounds great now. There is no more faint clattering during acceleration (which was present before I did anything). The vibration idle is now even less.

Thanks again for the help.
 
Originally Posted By: The Critic
Originally Posted By: Tegger
Originally Posted By: The Critic
I used the factory approved method. The lobes were pointing at about 9-10?

That's the difficult method. A tiny bit off and the cams are sitting on their ramps.

Originally Posted By: The Critic
What other methods would you recommend?

Turn crank by hand until the four lobes you want to adjust are pointing straight up to the sky. Now adjust those. Repeat until another four are pointing straight up, etc. until all are done. I guarantee that you'll find all those "tight" exhaust valves will now be found to be way too loose.

Another note: Be extremely careful HOW you insert those feeler gauges! If they're even slightly twisted or angled when you try to insert them, they will give a false reading. For example, if .012 "goes" with resistance but .013 ALSO "goes", then the gauges are being held on the wrong angle. If .012 "goes" with resistance and it's being held at the correct angle, then .013 will NOT go.


Okay, I re-did the adjustment.

Made it a "tight" 0.009" on the intake and a "tight" 0.012" on the exhaust. I made sure that the next size up (0.010 and 0.013, respectively) did not fit in.

The engine sounds great now. There is no more faint clattering during acceleration (which was present before I did anything). The vibration idle is now even less.

Thanks again for the help.

Glad to help.

There are two tricky parts to a valve adjustment:
1) getting the cams off their ramps, and
2) making sure you're measuring the clearance properly.

The first is easy, as described above. The second is harder. Since valve clearances are always a range, I use the go, no go method. This method simplifies the adjustment process.

Example:
-- Suppose the clearance is specified as .006 to .008.
-- Arrange three feeler gauge leaves out of their stack: .006, .007, and .008.
-- When adjusting a valve, set the clearance so that .007 goes in feeling like it's making very light contact on both faces. You may need to try different angles and to flex the feeler gauge a bit to find the "true" clearance.
-- Tighten the locknut and try the .007 again. It might have no contact at all any more -- and that's OK!
-- Now try the .006 It should NOT go no matter what.
-- Now try the .008. It should NOT go no matter what.
-- If the above is true, then you are within spec: Somewhere between .006 and .008, but not above or below either number.

A final point: Inspect your gauge set for any sort of burr on the ends of the leaves. I've seen cheaper gauges that have had a burr on the ends of the leaves that needs to be gently filed off.
 
Quote:
-- Now try the .006 It should NOT go no matter what.
-- Now try the .008. It should NOT go no matter what.
Can you fix the typo?
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
Quote:
-- Now try the .006 It should NOT go no matter what.
-- Now try the .008. It should NOT go no matter what.
Can you fix the typo?

Too late. The "Edit" button is gone.

That line should be removed entirely. If the .007 "goes" then it's obvious that the .006 will also "go".

Maybe the Mods can fix this for me?
 
intake .008-.010
exhaust .009-.011

For intake use the .009 gauge and make SURE that the .010 CANNOT go in
For exhaust use the .010 and make SURE that the .011 CANNOT go in

Follow this rule and you will have a properly adjusted engine
 
Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
intake .008-.010
exhaust .009-.011

For intake use the .009 gauge and make SURE that the .010 CANNOT go in
For exhaust use the .010 and make SURE that the .011 CANNOT go in

Exactly. That's the idea.
 
Also, is it true that cams don't have to be in perfect position for valve adjustment? Isn't 50% of the cam is in the "rest" position? You mentioned something about "not being on the ramp". For half of the circle, there should be no ramp, correct? I mean this is NOT like timing belt replacement where crank and cams need to be right on the dot.
 
To the OP.

I feel pretty comfortable with what you experienced. I think you're likely ok.

1. Over-tight is what overheats valves and eventually damages them. You loosened them.

2. your described 30-45deg is not a major change.

3. in my experience, it's the exhaust valves that need the adjustments mostly. I can't remember having to adjust intakes unless it's a new build or a grossly undermaintained engine.

4. hondas tend to have happy, chatty valves.

what you described seems in line with what I have personally experienced. you can double-check your work if it makes you feel better, but I think you'll be ok.
 
Originally Posted By: Vikas
You mentioned something about "not being on the ramp". For half of the circle, there should be no ramp, correct?

Not necessarily. Remember that modern valve-timing has considerable overlap, where both valves are open at the same time, so the "ramp" could well extend past half-way around the circle; I have no way of knowing for sure.

The only way driveway grease-monkeys like us can be 100% certain we're "off the ramp" is to point the lobes straight up to the sky.

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I mean this is NOT like timing belt replacement where crank and cams need to be right on the dot.

Right. But you do have to be completely off the "ramp", so mostly-pointing-to-the-sky should be OK.
 
Yes, but straight up to the sky is difficult, too. My cams are slightly angled so knowing where straight up relative to the cams is difficult. I wiggle the pieces and wait til they're loose, personally.
 
I have been also told that i is very bad to turn the crank/cam in the "wrong" direction. So one can not go back and forth to find TDC.
 
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