World Economic Collapse is imminent

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Originally Posted By: Garak
Then you should be able to detect that rigging and rig it against them, and let us little guys in on it.


Sure I can "detect" the rigging, but you surely know that I don't (neither does anyone outside an elite few) have the resources to know when and how the strings are pulled.

The HOUSE ALWAYS WINS, whether in the Vegas casino, or in the stock market.
 
While I wouldn't profess that there's no manipulation at points, either electronically programmed or strictly human-derived, that might effect the small investor, it's still an environment that has historically earned 7-8% a year for someone with an average mutual fund portfolio.

A friend of mind rails against the system and doesn't invest anything accordingly...and also has no money for retirement. In a converse way, it's similar to someone who's fixated on what a great expense ratio of .25 one of there funds has...and the fund significantly under performs the market for five years. "I'm not paying anything for this fund so I don't have to gain anything" apparently...or the the fatalistic opposite, "If I dollar cost averaged into my funds, it's just gonna be lost when they work the system", etc.

The house may win but many have also won consistently from 2009 to the present and most of those people are far from an insider or part of any elite...or specifically have had the need to detect anything as long as they know what they're invested in.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
The HOUSE ALWAYS WINS, whether in the Vegas casino, or in the stock market.

Read the post below yours. To equate the stock market to a casino is simply mathematical nonsense. That's even ignoring the general modus operandi of claiming there's a problem but offering no way to fix it, and just merely throwing one's hands up and saying nothing can be done. Everyday folks have been making money at the stock market for a lot of years, and a lot of retirements have been funded off of it. Catchphrases don't help your argument, either. A casino has a well defined "house." Applying gibberish terms to the stock market is not helpful.

If there is a conspiracy, and if the deck is stacked, that's why the Illuminati/Bilderbegs/Bushes/Kennedys/Knights Templar/Reptilians/men in black always win. They're willing to do something while the conspiracy theorist do nothing but foam at the mouth. Foaming at the mouth isn't an effective strategy.

Okay, the stock market is rigged to get the 1% richer. What are you going to do about it? MH-370 is at Diego Garcia. What are you going to do about it?
 
Originally Posted By: Garak


Okay, the stock market is rigged to get the 1% richer. What are you going to do about it?


THEY CAN'T WIN...if we don't play the game.
Simple, easy, logical.
shocked2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: zpinch
Boys and girls, with a major drop in the stock market a few days ago, there is more to come in the next couple months. Prepare yourself, buy Gold and/or silver, stock up on food, prepare for the worst. better safe than sorry.



I have acquired 40% of my wealth in the market. You just have to know when to exit. Hogs get slaughtered.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
THEY CAN'T WIN...if we don't play the game.
Simple, easy, logical.
shocked2.gif


No, they still can win, and still will win. Every society in history has had elites. Serfdom existed for centuries, long before the stock market. And the rich were rich. Not playing the game, as it were, only hurts oneself.

The poorest people in the world right now aren't in their position because they lost their money on the stock market. The starving in the world didn't lose their grocery money investing in stock on a green technology that was squashed by Big Oil and the NSA, as romantic as that notion might sound.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Garak
Okay, the stock market is rigged to get the 1% richer. What are you going to do about it?
THEY CAN'T WIN...if we don't play the game.
Simple, easy, logical.
shocked2.gif


If you've got a suggestion for an investment that has earned annualized returns of 7-8% over the long term and allows bi-weekly deposits, I'll gladly consider it.

However, my employer matches the first 5% of my pay that I contribute to the 401k. Not taking advantage of that would be lunacy. Many employers will match contributions. Yours might, and that's free money you're throwing away if you're not participating.

"They" don't care if you participate in a retirement plan or not. You're just losing out if you don't. "I" am winning by keeping my retirement funds in the market and making those gains and dividends which will allow me an early and comfortable retirement.
 
Garak,

You sound like the folks at an Occupy Wall Street protest (I'm not trying to cause trouble or instigate anything...)

But I agree with Bandito, the only person looking out for your best interests for retirement is yourself. You can't build a sizeable nest egg if you are not in the stock market (401K, ETF, mutual funds). At 60 years old I will get over $10,000 per month for retirement, not including social security.

Even at 5% return per year, over a 30 year timeframe you will do well if you invest 15-20% of your gross income.
 
Actually, I'm making a jab at the Occupy type attitudes. I'm pointing out that they complain about this and that yet have no idea how to fix the issue about which they gripe. And, when they're asked about their opinions, they're either obviously unworkable or they have no intentions whatsoever to implement them, much less an idea or plan to do so.

And poor comparisons don't help the cause. "The house always wins" is a phrase that doesn't apply here. I can actually, should I have the capital and the approvals, go out and start a casino. That's a fairly straightforward procedure, all things considered. The house has machines, decks of cards, land, a building, and so forth. Customers come in and play the odds. If they win, the house pays them. If they lose, they pay the house.

Comparing the stock exchange model to this is rather odd, to say the least. I wouldn't have the foggiest idea how to start my own stock exchange, but I would know that I wouldn't be owning thousands of companies to trade on that exchange, since that wouldn't even make logical sense in the slightest.

If people don't want to take care of their own retirement or think the stock market is a scam, they're entitled to do so. It would be a little more coherent if said people avoided purchasing anything from a publicly traded company. Then again, as my original point was, it's a lot easier to complain and do nothing than it is to complain and accomplish something.
 
Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Garak


Okay, the stock market is rigged to get the 1% richer. What are you going to do about it?


THEY CAN'T WIN...if we don't play the game.
Simple, easy, logical.
shocked2.gif

If you know how the game works why wouldn't you play? "They" are going to win no matter what. They'll simply lobby for your tax dollars. And get it. IF you have a basic understanding how stuff works the stock market is a sure thing. You must have made some poor decisions based on fear or ignorance. It happens. My inlaws, and I'm sure countless others, pulled all their money out at the very bottom of the market. Rode it all the way down and hopped off. And then plenty of people who needed a house in 09 wanted to make sure they waited until the prices went up 50% before buying. Then they're in a panic to buy. Being dumb makes "them" win.
 
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Originally Posted By: GiveMeAVowel
Originally Posted By: Garak


Okay, the stock market is rigged to get the 1% richer. What are you going to do about it?


THEY CAN'T WIN...if we don't play the game.
Simple, easy, logical.
shocked2.gif



So, your proposal is to stay out of the stock market, in order to prevent the 1% from getting richer?

So, how do you propose a middle-class person acquire wealth? How do I get a net 6-7% gain every year (after inflation)? How do you propose that I fund my retirement?

Further, what have you done to fund your retirement? How are you planning your future?
 
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Originally Posted By: Shannow


Can see them pushing the share price along (down or up), one sale at a time (yes, there needs to be someone buyin a single share too, and not at $20 brokerage).



It's called random volatility. A single individual investment bank or trading firm doesn't have the money to "push the share price along" in any meaningful way, especially after Dodd Frank was implemented. They can potentially do it at the tick level and scalp half pennies, but to move markets meaningfully, it doesn't happen. It takes the collective will of institutional investors to move markets, of which there are 10s of thousands with different and competing outlooks on the world and economy.
 
Those of you in the stock market game, a good bet right now is to get into "put option" when things start to tank. I couldnt tell you what is best, but there should be quite a few that will hit the [censored]... especially if the Fed decides to increase the interest rate 0.25% this month.
 
Originally Posted By: zpinch
...there should be quite a few that will hit the [censored]... especially if the Fed decides to increase the interest rate 0.25% this month.

Citation?
 
Originally Posted By: zpinch
Citation for what? Check out the Federal Reserve schedule, look it up, stop being lazy.

A citation showing that "there should be quite a few that will hit the [censored]" when the Fed raises the rate by one-quarter of one percent.

I'm well aware of the Fed's meeting schedule, but I'd very much like to see where you're getting this panic investment advice, since you seem to have no retirement savings or investment experience of your own.

Furthermore, most 401k-type retirement accounts are mutual funds that make batch transactions at the end of business on any given day. So, you can only trade at that day's closing price. The limit transactions are fine for day traders, but trying to time the market with a tax-deferred retirement account is a poor choice.

Does your employer offer a 401k with matching deposits that you're missing out on?
 
What I have personally is my business, not public knowledge.

So answer this, is the stock market going crazy right now? Yes or no?
 
Originally Posted By: zpinch
What I have personally is my business, not public knowledge.

If yes, you're missing out on free money from matching contributions because you're worried about Skynet "winning". If your employer has no plan to help you out, it's probably time to go looking for a new one. I'd much rather retire comfortably than refuse to invest for the future in order to stick it to the man. You'd only be hurting yourself. Skynet doesn't care if you invest or not.

Originally Posted By: zpinch
So answer this, is the stock market going crazy right now? Yes or no?

The word you're looking for is "volatility". Yes, there is a lot of it. Panic-selling equity funds in a 401k at the end of a day when you've taken unrealized losses and making them realized is not the way to go about things.

Someone with years left before retirement should not mess with their tax-deferred accounts. That's how many people without pensions retire, by making regular deposits into investments that are aggressive in the early years, and conservative later on. If you've got no plan to retire, now's the time to start.
 
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